1972 B50 SS - getting closer to restart, but need help on lot of little things

[rhyatt]

It'll take a while for a new engine to scavenge back to the oil tank , hence throwing in some to start with , plus the benefit of splashing about internally.
Once feed gears are filled , they'll stay filled.
The gears won't move air , they won't suck , but they'll move a liquid easily

[ReturntoFlight]

rhyatt,

I just edited my previous re operation of NRV ... it prevents wet sumping?  Since there was so little oil in the sump, this is not related.  I think I understand.

[rhyatt]

Once you've primed everything and got it running , check the oil return to the oil tank , the rockers take their supply from this side.
The oil returned will eventually become spits and spurts , part air part oil as the scavenge gears move twice as much oil , thereby keeping the sump empty.

[ReturntoFlight]

Thanks, rhyatt.

Just checked with my neighbor - a bike mechanic, but more specializing in go fast stuff - Ducati, etc and his kids race flat track up to 450 cc class - he works with the owner (named Dink) of the shop (D&D Cycles in Pensacola) who does a lot of "vintage" bike work. Showed him the video of the start - he immediately said - "sounds like it isn't getting oil."

I'll reassemble all the lines filling them as I go, do the priming on the pump, refill, squirt oil in the rocker box, give it another shot and report back.

[ReturntoFlight]

OK - "while I'm in there" time ...

While I was trying to get a new hose onto the feed line from front frame to engine, it became apparent I needed a better idea - the hose would collapse/tear prior to slipping onto the engine nipple.  Started the sourcing exercise, but not clear I could locally get something that would not do the same as the oil hose I have.

So, consulted with Dink at D&D Cycles.  We discussed heating the hose to form a better 90°, but then he mentioned the mods that so many do on the B50 - Dink used to flat track B50s.  One of the mods might actually make this more logical.  A line from the rear frame plug to a "T" fitting on the feed line nipple not only gets the oil from the unused oil area, but it means I can run hose from front frame straight back, eliminating the need to have a tight 90° radius.

Well, the plug is 3/8" UNF, and almost everything I have seen locally is NPT thread.  Can order I think, but I wanted faster gratification - found a 3/8 NPT to 5/16 nipple in my collection of future useful fittings, rethreaded it to UNF, added a washer and reused the perfect seal on the plug.  Seems to fit, point the right direction, and perhaps the brass fitting to steel female threads wil
l assist in sealing.  The "T" should be easier to find :-)

Am I OK with this solution?

[rhyatt]

Certainly tight in there.
A thinner wall , maybe clear plastic , softer wall , might do.
Maybe clear thin wall fuel pipe.
Bearing in mind the original pipe is age hardened.
For the purposes of priming the oil pump etc , to see if the bike pumps oil round , just use a length of clear pipe connected to the pump inlet  pipe, fill it up , kick over to draw oil in whilst pumping oil in , start it and see if it draws in visibly , all the time topping up with fresh oil

[rhyatt]

https://draganfly.co.uk/product-category/bsa/sparesparts-for-bsa-b50/air-filter-b50/

https://draganfly.co.uk/product-category/bsa/sparesparts-for-bsa-b50/gearchange/
28 is feed
25 is return (indicated by the smaller pipe to the rockers)

I don't know if these pics relate to your bike , but it may give you ideas

[rhyatt]

Looking again at your pics, particularly the union at the bottom of the reservoir where very little room.
Hair drier to warm the area and pipe , feed upwards from underneath,  leaving bottom end free.
Get this on firmly and then just enough oil in the frame to dribble out of this pipe.
Already having oil can pumped oil into the feed stub under the crankcase.
This will minimise any air.

[ReturntoFlight]

rhyatt,

The area between the rear frame reservoir plug (now the fitting to provide oil to the feed connection) and the fender looks sufficient to position the oil line - will sort how to smooth the turn forward while getting it under the engine.  Installing a T provides the opportunity to eliminate the 90° turn in the feed line from the front frame - straight from the rear and straight from the front into the T. I think this is good news.

BTW, after my statement about being easier to find the T locally than the UNF threaded connector, I found ZERO 5/16" T fittings in my area - big box stores or auto parts.  Probably missed some, but gave up and ordered online.  Just need one, but could get "package deal" for three with nine hose clamps for $7 USD.

Was considering a filter for the rear feed line - I know some use filters and some don't - this seemed to be a suitable size, and can be easily cleaned, and perhaps the filtering material even replaced by less restrictive if it become an issue?  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0D7H8YJB1/ref=sspa_dk_detail_0?pd_rd_i=B0D7H8YJB1&pd_rd_w=f4Xhe&content-id=amzn1.sym.f2f1cf8f-cab4-44dc-82ba-0ca811fb90cc&pf_rd_p=f2f1cf8f-cab4-44dc-82ba-0ca811fb90cc&pf_rd_r=GTN0HCQAJVGAZDJTW4MM&pd_rd_wg=S35FI&pd_rd_r=1fb719dd-dea0-4bfe-b571-d0ede8badb7f&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9kZXRhaWxfdGhlbWF0aWM&th=1

[rhyatt]

Personally , I haven't bothered with oil filters.
These classic bikes nowadays , get more fiddle time , oil changes than they ever did in the 60s.

[ReturntoFlight]

Wait - was going to edit my last - darn it - started reading more on where to filter - now confused!  Should I filter between the rear frame feed and engine, or put the same filter I was going to use between engine and frame on the return side, instead?  Gah ...

[rhyatt]

personally , if I was going to filter my engine oil, I would put it (like car mfrs do) in-between the reservoir and the oil pump.
others may prefer otherwise.
however, the usual Renault 5 size screw on filters need careful allocation of space (which you may be lacking).
the filter you attached in the last link was a fuel filter not oil filter by the way

[iansoady]

The problem with fitting in the feed side is if they get clogged then you get no oil to the engine. I accept this may be unlikely but.... Norton put the filter on the return side of the Commando for a reason.

[Derek996]

The problem with fitting in the feed side is if they get clogged then you get no oil to the engine. I accept this may be unlikely but.... Norton put the filter on the return side of the Commando for a reason.

50 odd years ago I'd just rebuilt my Road Rocket engine. New rebore and pistons, new bearings, reground shaft and new big end shells. Morgo filters were new then and I thought it would be a good idea to fit one. About 200 miles later the big ends failed. I'd foolishly fitted the filter in the feed side! An expensive mistake that'll never make again,

[DAVE BRADY]

Hi,

Filters on cars set up quite different as they do not have pumped return to a tank but gravity to the sump. I suspect that he car filter is after the pump so that the oil is pushed through the filter rather than drawn.  If the filter clogs/fails then the pump can can push oil through the release valve and so still provide oil to the crank.
On our BSAs it is very difficult to access the oil feed between the pump ( I know of one person who has done this)  and the crank so we fit them on the return.  The filter specified has a low resistance so that the return part of the pump can easily get the oil back to the tank.

Dave.