1972 B50 SS - getting closer to restart, but need help on lot of little things

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OK - small detail, but need some stick and rudder ...

How did factory run the fuel hoses/fuel petcock connectors?

Photos show could have different ways - I have the "book" 30 degree connectors.  The carb fitting can apparently be turned facing forward or rearwards (aft).  With both petcock connectors AND the carb fitting facing aft, it seems to clear the primary side vent better than the opposite.

How did the factory set up?

And,  BTW, washed the tank out three times with fuel - first time fuel in 44 years!

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Been kinda quiet out there - lack of input so I rigged the fuel lines as photo shows.

Biggest issue this post is the battery terminal to metal side cover clearance ... I have the correct battery size per the book, but the terminals are so close to cover I put a foam and tape pad over the negative terminal just in case.  Didn't have original battery to dry fit ... thoughts?

Link to all photos of this bike - https://1drv.ms/f/s!AhNoDLSd9nDe9whrLzFzZc4Ls5hJ?e=wy2XcC

[DAVE BRADY]

Hi,

 The final position of fuel lines etc. is probably a bit subjective and I would imagine that there was a bit of variation from the factory. Neat and tidy and to your aesthetic satisfaction is what counts.
On some BSAs the battery terminals do seem a bit close to metal bits but if all the factory securing parts are in place then they should be fine.  However, there is nothing wrong with a bit of 'belt and braces' and a foam pad or a bit of rubber as an extra precaution in quite sensible.

Dave.

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Thanks, Dave - big determinant is the primary vent hose - played with it today - think it's OK.  Only leaks I had were the old style ferrules - they will not seal the outlet pipes from the tank.  Clamps work fine.  Oh, well, another tool that will probably not get much use in the future.

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Well, one step forward one back ... put it all together, rolled it out of the garage and tried a few kicks.

Bad news - nothing, not even a pop.  Pulled plug after about 20 kicks - no spark.  I had spark when I tested for spark a few weeks ago.  So, back into garage for two hours of troubleshooting.  Found the white/yellow wire from the kill switch did not have battery power with ignition turned on.  Back tracked and found white wire feeding power to the kill switch was about to fall apart.  Nothing obvious from outside, but once cut open showed signs of copper corrosion with the usual telltale green - and hade just pulled apart inside enough to have either intermittent or no power.  Moving the four wires in a six connector Lucas holder individually while watching the multi-meter pointed the way.  Didn't have extra connectors, so, drilled out the bullet, cut wire back and soldered - for now.  Good spark now.  Glad it wasn't the kill switch or switch assembly!

Good news - the plug was wet with fuel, and carb not (yet) leaking!

Wanted to add experience with battery - installed the correct size PUZ5, but the darn thing just barely fits under the side cover.  Initially put some foam over the negative terminal (positive ground system), but found a plastic corner cover piece - the steel cover plus proximity with the battery terminal pretty much requires some form of insulation cover IMO.

[DAVE BRADY]

Hi,

A tidy solution to a potential problem so definitely a step forward.

Dave.

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Status Update!

It's ALIVE!  (last alive in 1981, Corpus Christi, Texas)

After a few hours of tinkering, recleaning and adjusting Amal, a bit of 2000 grit sanding in the throat and on the slide, figuring out a couple of fuel leaks, rerigging the throttle cable and grip, etc, etc ... rolled it out, played with it a bit, a few kicks trying to remember how, a backfire, and one last kick ... instant start and smooth idle ... unbelievable!

Rode to neighbor's house and back in first gear ... shut it down ... tried to restart ... finally got restarted and then adjusted air screw and idle for suitable tick over.  Noticed it smelled and showing heated smoke on cylinder, and was sounding different.  Shut it down.

So, earlier while running, I pulled dipstick and thought I saw gurgling from oil circulation, but not sure I have a suitable baseline.

Given all this, what would you guys do?  I was considering:
-  pull oil line at the tube filter to check for obstructions
-  drain oil from case at the screen and check for obstructions

Thoughts?

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Decided to drain and check oil, fittings, pipes, filters, etc.

1.  Pulled sump filter, and only got maybe 2-3 ounces of oil from it; filter mesh was clean and clear of debris:  this seems like too little oil left in the sump?

2.  Pulled frame filter and fitting: more oil than the sump, filter mesh had lots of goo (I cleaned while I was removing/replacing things about a year ago), so goo was flushing out of frame, likely?

3. Pulled oil feed line connecting the frame filter and engine: a bit of oil and clear.

4.  Pulled return hoses to frame resv and rocker box: clear and drained a bit of oil

5.  Pushed wire into both frame resv and rocker box fitting ends:  no obstructions

6.  Pulled hose at frame return end:  all clear up into frame and down to the return fitting

7.  Pulled drain plug on back portion of the frame resv: got the most oil at one time from here, looked clean (reasonable since it was sitting in the back and doesn't move around much)?

Didn't find a smoking gun with the oil - no swarf in it, no visible aluminum, ran a magnet through it and found nothing)

Could be oil pump, but given it is gear driven I would expect something dramatic if sheared worm shaft, might even have flow enough to run at idle for awhile?

So, wanting to rule out an oil issue or internal damage since these are bad juju ... anything I'm missing?

What is next thoughts regarding overheating?
-  Timing:  when it fired it ran really well, and rev'd well until I noticed it heating up and then rough running started prior to shutting it down (less than a minute after I noticed the heat)?
-  Fuel mixture:  the plug looked like it was running really rich, but this isn't usually connected an overheating cause?
-  Clutch drag:  it was in neutral, but could still be?  I checked adjustment and have a bit of play.
-  Blown head gasket?  No obvious leaks, but ...

[DAVE BRADY]

Hi,

Have a look down the plug hole.  What colour is the top of piston? With piston at BDC whast doe the bore look like?

Dave.

[rhyatt]

When you connected oil feed pipe from the reservoir to the engine , did you prime the oil pump and fill this pipe to ensure the supply gears in the pump were full of oil.
Gear pumps shift oil well but don't like air in the line

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Dave - top of piston looks pretty darn clean right now.  Borescope from a couple of months ago showed cross hatching intact and OK cylinder walls.  And, it ran and revved really well yesterday, with little to no smoke.

ryhatt - I did not.  Was not aware of this characteristic - certainly know of priming water pumps of different varieties, though.  How does one prime it - pull timing side cover and remove the non-return valve plug, spring, ball, then (with new oil and clutch side sealed up) kick it over with compression release pulled, then ball, spring and cover back in?

[rhyatt]

Priming.
Remove oil feed pipe from reservoir and use an oil can pump type to fill this pipe and then continue pumping to get oil into the gears on the feed side.
Rotate engine a few times and keep pumping oil to ensure gears are filled.
Carefully reconnect feed pipe to oil tank and refill with correct amount.
Gear pumps have a habit of gravity dribbling oil through them creating wet sump , if you use your bike regularly , this keeps the engine oil in the tank
As far as scavenge side , pour a small amount into the rocker box , this will cover all the internal components to ensure oiled on start up

[Stubaker58]

Just a thought, but have you double checked that the feed and return pipes are connected the correct way around?
I believe they should cross over under the motor on the later unit singles(?) unlike my B40 where they run parallel.
Great looking bike BTW trust you get it sorted soon.
Regards

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rhyatt,

Trying to see the physics on this application.  From static oil fill, the oil in the front tube requires sufficient suction from the oil pump to draw it through the pump (and the non return valve?), and into the engine, then drains to the sump where it is scavenged (one way scavenge valve?) via the "Y" fitting to (a) return to the frame resv, and (b) to the valves thence through pushrod tubes to the engine?

So, I'll pull the feed line from the nipple on the bottom of the frame filter, and squirt oil in the hose with intermittent kickovers - got it - thanks! (I would have thought the oil sitting in the front tube would be sufficient to prime given I had kicked it over so much - but I can see it maybe air locking even with the engine running, with no oil in the pump)

Not related to non return valve since it prevents oil from returning back towards the front tube?  Not related to scavenge valve as it prevents oil from going back into the engine? Edit - think now understand the NRV prevents wet sumping?  Mine must be ok since the resv is not draining through the NRV into the engine, filling sump as I had so little oil in the sump?

And, to the temp of the oil in frame - when I pulled the dipstick after shutting it down, the oil did not feel warm - how long would it need to run for the oil to be noticeably warmer than ambient?  It ran for maybe 10 minutes, air temp about 24C.

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Stubaker, thanks!

The returns are of different sizes on the "Y" fitting with the return hose to frame being larger diameter, and feed to valves being smaller.