A65R Rocket out of ideas

[Cmcl.1959]

Thanks again for all the suggestions. Take everything on board and let you know if I get this sorted out.
Best regards
Clarke

[DAVE BRADY]

Hi,

The springs may not be helping.  I replaced the springs in 4 spring clutch and had difficulty findiong the right ones.  I will see if I can find out where I got them.

Dave.

[DAVE BRADY]

Hi,

I cannot find any packaging but I have two places I have bought clutch springs from.
Fairspares and Britbikes but make sure they have the right ones.
Do you still have the original springs to measure?  The length should be 1 34/64" or 39.29mm.
I was sent some that were 10mm too long and I could just engage adjuster but they almost became coil bound and very heavy. The springs you have may look OK for setting up the clutch but in use may be distorting the pressure plate.
There may be a previous post with this info. in.

Dave.

[DAVE BRADY]

Hi,
Search this forum for the post below.

"clutch springs
Started by DAVE BRADY, 15 Apr, 2025, 11:21"

Dave.

[JJC]

Hi,
When this happens for example coming to a set of traffic lights and I've changed down from second and it misses neutral and goes presumably into first, when at a standstill it will not shift back up either by using my foot or reaching down and trying to move it by hand. It feels solidly stuck.
I've tried rocking the bike back and forward, no joy.
If I let the engine die, usually after a few seconds I can get it back up to neutral by hand.
But usually if there is traffic behind me I will keep the clutch disengaged. Funnily enough once I start to move off again the bike hesitates a bit and I have to push down on the lever as though it's not fully in gear.
Hope this clarifies the issue.
Regards
Clarke

Normally when it's difficult to move the gear change (when stopped with engine running and in gear) then that is usually when the clutch is dragging..... but from the other information supplied, I'm not so sure.  Stuck solid on the upstroke as opposed to stiff in action is not the same thing and the fact you can move the bike backwards and it doesn't creep forward suggests the clutch is not dragging much if at all.  It's these two pieces of info that makes me thing it is not necessarily clutch drag related.  If I have understood the info correctly, I'd be looking elsewhere in the gearchange mechanism area. 

[Cmcl.1959]

Hi again,
Re the springs, I'm assuming that they are the original length. I have the workshop manual which gives me that. I also have a picture I took somewhere that shows the difference in length between them and the ones I got from Draganfly when I also bought the plain plates that don't fit. I pointed out that the tangs on mine were not straight edged but were sloping. No reply.
The picture I posted with the 3 gear change quadrants( in fact I have 4 last one was the NOS)Some I've changed the plungers and springs for new, is part of the story of the multiple things I've bought in the area of the gear change parts including return springs and gear change stops ( got one from Dave once)some that have been filed down so someone must have had similar issues. There is a service information sheet that was issued perhaps only to America dated 2/4/64 service information #6 that highlights issues with gear change problems and possible causes. I'll take a pic an add it late.
I had thought that maybe the condition of one of sliding gear dogs might be causing it to stick.Don't know. That's why after all the gear change part I've tried that it must be gear box related.
Anyway thanks for getting back again.
Clarke

[Cmcl.1959]

Hi again. Here's the photos of the service sheet I was working to to try and cure the problem. I concentrated mostly on the gear change parts as I thought that more likely and was reluctant to take the gearbox out unless necessary.
There are also photos of the different spring lengths, the shorter ones are the ones that were fitted to the clutch and the other two were from Draganfly and another supplier both far too long and stiff and although the same part number were also of different lengths.
Thanks for looking.
Clarke

[DAVE BRADY]

Hi,

The shorter ones look about right.  If they are the correct length then go with them.
If the bike has done a lot of miles there could be wear on the small rollers on the selector forks and in the slots that they run in on the selector plate.  This means a strip down even to have a look.

Dave.

[Cmcl.1959]

Hi Dave,
Yeah it's looking that taking the gearbox out to check is what's required.
At the end of the day if I just put it back together as it is I've achieved nothing really so I think I'll have to bite the bullet and do that. I've had to do so much to get this far considering how it was when it arrived so pointless not going that bit further.
I can only thank everyone who's replied it's been really helpful.
Best regards
Clarke

[Tigerfeet]

I created the identical scenario myself. In an bid to lighten the clutch effort on the handlebar lever I swapped to a clutch lever with a different distance between the pivot bolt and the cable hole. From memory normal was 1" and I went to 7/8". This had the desired effect of reducing the strain on my fingers etc by a noticable amount - but the side effect was that the cable movement was reduced - and when hot, the clutch drags and makes selecting neutral with the engine running impossible. (I have to reach across with my right hand to turn the ignition off.)

I am about to change the handlebars to slighter higher rise, which may or may not involve a load of new cables. When I do this I will swap back to the standard levers - and fit a Venhill featherlight clutch cable.

[Cmcl.1959]

Hi, thanks for this. I haven't altered the levers since I got the bike but I did re-route the clutch cable after I saw a post on here that showed a picture of the cable running along the engine cases from where the abutment is, beside the coils and round the left side of the engine and up the frame to the lever. This was instead of I suppose the "conventional " route up to the top tube under the tank etc.
I found it certainly looked to be more sensible as it keeps the cable horizontal as it leaves the case.
However the issue was there from day one when I got the bike. In fact it was way worse as the gear change was really bad. I'm not sure if the link is still there on a post I did a few years ago to three videos I did showing this that my friend at work managed to put on YouTube for me where I tried different springs, stops etc. to try and solve this it would have been probably in 2021 when I was just discovering much was wrong with the bike.i think the post was A65 Rocket gear change issue. If it is still there it's worth watching.
I may try re routing the cable to see if that helps but it's a good suggestion so thanks very much for replying.
Regards
Clarke

[Tigerfeet]

Definitely be worth measuring the distance shown. I'm fairly certain that the picture shows the original (correct) clutch lever with 1" (or 1 1/16"?) distance between the hole centres.

[Cmcl.1959]

Hi again,
Just checked and the link to the videos are still there.
Search under A65 gear box issues revisited and it's May 2022 and the three videos each have a link to YouTube.
At that point I was trying different springs and stops and a quadrant I bought to try to solve it but one I think shows how I couldn't find any gear coming down the box.
It is a lot better now apart from the sticking in gear thing.
Regards to all
Clarke

[Tigerfeet]

The lever might have been changed at any time back in the bike's history - before you got it. The Golden Rule is trust nothing!
Has your clutch lever got 1 1/16" distance between the centre of the handlebar lever's pivot point to the centre of the cable pull barrel?

[JJC]

The lever might have been changed at any time back in the bike's history - before you got it. The Golden Rule is trust nothing!
Has your clutch lever got 1 1/16" distance between the centre of the handlebar lever's pivot point to the centre of the cable pull barrel?

I have a different version along the same lines.  I once bought a new lever, supposedly the correct one.  It was rubbish.  The problem was that when fitted, it was too close to the handlebars so the pull distance back to the bar was too small.  Had it been steel I could have heated it and bent it to shape but it was an aluminium lever as fitted to the OIF range.  Most likely it would have snapped.