Sidecar on late 60s single frame?

[iansoady]

I've been offered this by David Angel, a sidecar guru at a very reasonable price so have pounced on it. It will be Spring before I do anything with it but it's nice to have a future project to think about. Apparently it's NOS and was the last one imported the the UK. He thinks it's mostly there.

[limeyrob]

Well done! Taking a step back worked If you do a web search on Steib sidecar "images" there are some good pictures of the fittings, good enough to work out the basics.  I think the hardest will the lower rear ball joint, a stud through the swing arm could be the solution.

[iansoady]

Yes, there are lotosof options. David runs F2 motorcycles which specialises in sidecars - used to supply Urals and Nevals - and does his own fittings which obviously he'd like to promote! His website is a mine of information. (https://simplysidecars.co.uk/) I too thought of the swinging rm spindle, or alternatively the centre stand mountings. The tricky one is the front upper which is shielded by radiator / petrol tank. There is a welded on gusset which is only lightweight but I think with a suitable spacer it may do the trick. As I understand it, the lower mountings take the weight of the chair, the upper ones stop it folding up.

[limeyrob]

The big loads are though the rear ball joint, drive and braking - I did many miles on a A10 outfit and this needed regular tightening. The swan-neck to the steering head area is keeping the pitch correct to keep the front of the chair off the road and its also maintaining the alignment and toe-in. It works hard in corners.  The front seat mount along with the under engine one is stopping the whole thing folding up and maintaining the slight lean out.
I was always checking the fittings and still on two occasions had one fall off!  They work hard.  I would explore the possibility of welding a tube across behind the steering head welded to the plates with (say) a 1/2" bore so you can put a stud though with a clevis for a cross bolt. I think the problem with the centre stand for the rear fixing its a bit off the thrust line, the drive and rear braking (of which you do a lot) is though the SA pivot.  Simply-sidecars look to be a great source of advice.

[iansoady]

Thanks Rob, interesting. I have thought that the two lower mounts take the weight of the sidecar plus occupants and that the steering head and rear upper mounts are to prevent, as you say, the sidecar folding in. I've kust checked the S/A spindle and it has a 1/2" hole which should be enough. I have been thinking about the front lower mounting and am wondering about a 2" or so square bar across and beneath the duplex frame loops with saddle clamps holding it to the frame rails. David Angel supplies a wide range of fittings - at a cost - which should help a lot. Interestingly the old ball joint which I remember from my Norton/Watsonian days is nit included, neither are the telescoping tupes witch clips - both of which I seem to remember slackening off as you mention.

I've now arranged transport from Wisbech to Redditch - the logistics of collecting it myself were starting to get a bit daunting.

This is a picture from the start of my sidecarring journey about 75 years ago. Trying to reach the gear lever on Dad's pre-warModel 19.......

[limeyrob]

Lovely photo!!  You certainly have bragging rights when it comes to outfits:)
I took a look at simply sidecars and they are very interesting.  They are using a 5 point fixing with no rear ball.  In this set up you could use the centre stand and the rest are all clamps.    The prices soon add up but other than a heap of bits from a auto-jumble and a lot of bashing they look a good option.

[DAVE BRADY]

Hi,

Is the tubular swinging arm pivot strong enough.  A 1/2" bolt would possibly be strong enough but it would be working against the thin wall of the tube.

Dave.

[limeyrob]

See if you can get a 1/2 UNF caphead.  These are immensely strong grade 12.9 and they do come in long lengths.  A normal HT bolt is 8.8

[iansoady]

I've been thinking of making a plate out of 1/4" steel linking the swinging arm pivot and centre stand mount which should be robust enough and avoid the twisting effect a single point of attachment would have. The rear upper(s) shouldn't be a proble as I can use the frame rails there.

An HT cap head is a good suggestion or I could just make a stud out of decent steel meaning I could have cycle threads.

David Angel seems to provide links etc for every possibility but at a price. I'm not sure I need to sophistication of the screwed adjustable links but will no doubt find out.

[limeyrob]

I needed some HT bolts in BSF and really struggled but then found that there are huge stocks of high grade BSF capheads. The could go back to the war or 1950s, either way try looking for BSF capheads.
Bizarrely there seem to be 5/16 cycle cap heads but only in 1".  I like the plate idea, if gives you options to position the fixing

[iansoady]

The sidecar has now arrived courtesy of Phil at Acceleration bike movers who always does an excellent and reasonably priced job. It's more complete than I'd feared, and is in generally excellent condition. The rear suspension on the body is different to others I've seen in that it seems to use bike type suspension units rather than the laid down springs on others. This actually makes it much easier to source them.

I've decided to have the body professionally painted to match the bike's tank and have a quote of £550 from a local body shop which seems reasonable. They have good feedback and speaking to the proprietor he has a good understanding of what I want. I'll be painting the chassis black using Paragon coach enamel. But all this will wait until the New Year as lots of other things still in progress.

[iansoady]

I'm slowly cracking on with this and am making split clamps for the bike frame out of alloy blocks. The front upper will go on the downtube just below the steering head; the lower on the tube going beneath the engine. Rear lower will go on a 10mm plate bridging the swinging arm spindle, rear brake pivot and pillion footrest bolt, rear uppers (2) on the seat tube and rear diagonal going up to the suspension unit. I'll have to chop the toolbox about a bit and modify the cover for clearance.

The body is booked in for paint at the beginning of March by which time I should have the chassis all hooked up. I hope.....

Machining and producing vast amounts of swarf in progress:

[iansoady]

I've been occupying myself with the B'Zuki sidecar attachments and think I have it all sussed. The attached shows them on the bike. The rear lower one isn't finished - it will be a 10mm mild steel plate picking up on the hollow swinging arm pivot and the conveniently positioned rear brake pivot just below it. It will also have a 3/8" bolt through the pillion footrest mounting to the rear of them.The others are all clamps made out of alumimium alloy.

Most of the vertical load is taken by the 2 lower ones, and probably 75% of that by the rear one. The top 3 act as triangulation points both to brace the whole thing and to allow and set the lean out. They will connect by means of seamless tubing with threaded inserts in the ends to allow for that adjustment.

[idie]

You have done well making all your own fittings. I have just fitted a Steib back on my B33 after 20 plus years. Luckily I still had a pile of fittings.

[iansoady]

I'm now cracking on with the tie bars / struts. Some pics here: https://www.iansoady.org.uk/BSA/fittings.htm