B31 Help - Clutch re-assembly - clutch not working

[Fraz]

'54 Plunger, 6 bolt clutch.

Please excuse the long post but I'm tearing my hair out here.

I've re-assembled my clutch and it's constantly in gear, despite the plates moving out.

Here's the back story.
All was fine with the clutch for the last year of owning this bike but last Monday, the clutch inner basket came off the shaft whilst out for a ride.

Got it home and removed the primary chain cover to fine the floating basket.

See image #1 for how it was assembled.
It had a "domed" washer fitted UNDER the basket, then the basket and finally the large conical nut that has the flat (presumably for a tab washer to lock it tightly?) Except mine had nothing locking the nut on, hence why it fell off.

Re-assembled it all today, putting the basket on first, then the "domed" washer and finally the conical big nut.
I tightened the out with an impact gun, not having a torque wrench and tabbed the washer over the flat of the conical nut, fitted the plates and started the bike in neutral.
Pulled the clutch, put it in 1st and it lurched forwards and stalled.
I found that the clutch, although the plates are moving out, is not affecting the gearbox.

Primary chain off, plates out of the clutch and I found that the inner basket does not move independently of the outer basket.

I've assembled it in order of the images below. (#2 #3 #4 & #5) but it would appear that it needs a washer / spacer UNDER the basket for the clutch to operate.

This is contrary to the parts diagram and there would be no space left on the shaft splines to fit the tab washer if a washer were to be placed under the inner basket.

Can anyone please tell me where I'm going wrong or what the problem is ?

I've got to get the bike running before the weekend.

Many thanks

[DAVE BRADY]

Hi,

Before fitting any plates put the washer and domed nut on.  Just do it tight rather than torqued up.
The centre should rotate quite feely as it turns the main shaft of the gear box.  Likewise, unless you have the primary chain on, the chain wheel should rotate freely.  These two parts should not touch in any way.

Dave.

[cdsdorset2]

Did you put the washer on curve inwards or outwards?

[Fraz]

Hi,

Before fitting any plates put the washer and domed nut on.  Just do it tight rather than torqued up.
The centre should rotate quite feely as it turns the main shaft of the gear box.  Likewise, unless you have the primary chain on, the chain wheel should rotate freely.  These two parts should not touch in any way.

Dave.

Thanks Dave.
I'd seen a YouTube video that said 60 ft/lbs  but to me, if it's tight and the tab washer is locked, that should be OK?

Basically, what you've said.

I'll try just with it spanner-tight before locking the tab and see if that makes it work.

Thanks for your answer

[Fraz]

Did you put the washer on curve inwards or outwards?

I put it on dished outwards (the outer lip raised, so I could get under it to bend it up to lock the big nut.

Did I get it wrong?

[cdsdorset2]

Im confused. In pic 5 there are obvious skid marks on the washer. How has that occured if it was locked onto the nut?

[Fraz]

Im confused. In pic 5 there are obvious skid marks on the washer. How has that occured if it was locked onto the nut?

The marks will probably be from when the big nut was tightened down with the impact gun?

Should the washer have the lip raised outwards like I've fitted it?
Or inwards (towards the basket surface?)

[cdsdorset2]

Lip raised. But how hard did you tighten it to cause that much damage? Try tightening it with a torque wrench.

[Fraz]

Lip raised. But how hard did you tighten it to cause that much damage? Try tightening it with a torque wrench.

Torque is supposed to be 60 ft/lb (according to YouTube) and my wrench only goes up to 40 so I used the impact gun (as advised by my local vintage bike breaker)

[cdsdorset2]

Have to admit ive never done that much damage to a lock washer at 60ftlb.

[cdsdorset2]

I know its a stupid question but the plate has been fitted behind the chainwheel hasnt it.

[Fraz]

I know its a stupid question but the plate has been fitted behind the chainwheel hasnt it.

Not sure which "plate" you mean and by "chain wheel" do you mean the outer clutch drum?

[DAVE BRADY]

Hi,

Number 23 is chainwheel/clutch basket/drum and you have this already fitted complete with bearings - squeeze a bit more grease in to these.

Now fit 16, the clutch centre, the washer 14 and the nut 13.

Do the nut up tight - final torque later.

Does the centre rotate freely and smoothly?  If so then these parts should be OK.

Now assemble clutch plates individually making sure that they slide in to position.

As there is no pressure on the plates you should be able to turn the centre, probably need a socket, and the plain plates will turn with it.

Now fit the pressure plate and springs with the springs all done roughly evenly.

Does the clutch now disengage when the lever is pulled? 

If so great now take the pressure plate off again and torque the nut and turn over the washer.

Refit the pressure plate and adjust the springs to get even lift of the pressure plate and no slip when turning the engine over.

Sorry if this seems patronising.

Dave.

[Fraz]

Hi,

Number 23 is chainwheel/clutch basket/drum and you have this already fitted complete with bearings - squeeze a bit more grease in to these.

Now fit 16, the clutch centre, the washer 14 and the nut 13.

Do the nut up tight - final torque later.

Does the centre rotate freely and smoothly?  If so then these parts should be OK.

Now assemble clutch plates individually making sure that they slide in to position.

As there is no pressure on the plates you should be able to turn the centre, probably need a socket, and the plain plates will turn with it.

Now fit the pressure plate and springs with the springs all done roughly evenly.

Does the clutch now disengage when the lever is pulled? 

If so great now take the pressure plate off again and torque the nut and turn over the washer.

Refit the pressure plate and adjust the springs to get even lift of the pressure plate and no slip when turning the engine over.

Sorry if this seems patronising.

Dave.

Dave,
It's not patronizing at all.
I'm new to this so any advice is appreciated.

I'm guessing that I've over tightened the big nut?

I'll try again this afternoon.

What grease should I use in the bearings?
CV grease?

Thanks again

[DAVE BRADY]

Hi,

Use a high melting point grease.  Just push it in until all spaces are full and wipe off any surplus leaving just a smear across the bearing.

Unless you are using a very long lever you would be hard pushed to over tighten the nut.  It locks all the centre bits together and they cannot be crushed.  If you are using a socket with a standard length 'tommy' bar you will never over tighten it. If you can get a torque wrench that would be useful.
For the A65 the clutch centre nut is tightened to 70/75 ft/lbs which is quite a lot.
Unless someone comes up with and official setting then perhaps you could settle on 60 ft/lbs.

Dave.