A65 Star -does anyone make pipes that actually FIT?

[1660bob]

HI All, ever busy trying to re-build my 1962 A65 Star, my focus at present is on the exhaust system.......    Jeez- what a P.I.T.A...
I have now bought THREE sets of pipes.... The first two sets have been returned as they did not fit. Today, I tried a third set from yet another supplier. I was, er, um, somewhat disappointed to see that these don`t fit  properly either!! -All three sets have been made by different manufacturers, and all have different faults- so its NOT the bike as far as I can see.

The bike is a stock, undamaged, unmodified A65 Star. The engine is in the frame with its original bolts, unskimmed barrels sitting on a standard base gasket. Standard copper head gasket under the standard,unskimmed original head- so all is as BSA intended. Frame exhaust tabs on bottom frame rails, unbent and unmodified, as BSA made them.

The first pipe set would not even go into the exhaust ports without a hell of a struggle (pipe O/D too big) and the bolt hole in the offside pipe tab was, at the best position I could manage, well below and to the front of the frame tab hole by 3/4". The pipe bend was wrongly formed so it was pointing inwards at the rear towards the wheel,-and upwards. The silencer would have been hitting the swingarm! The Nearside pipe bend was maybe almost there (ish) but I could not say for sure as the pipe tab on that side hit end to end with the frame tab anyway preventing fitting to check ...

The second set were only marginally better. They were a nice, close, push fit into the head (both sides), but on this set the tabs were both BEHIND the frame tabs by about 3/4" (thus a variance of nearly an Inch and a half with the first set!!)  Again, the nearside bend form was close (ish) but almost touching the primary case bottom, but I could not say for sure as both pipe tab edges hit with the frame tab edges preventing any chance of fitting.... the offside pipe form pointing upwards  so silencer would have been 1"-1.5" too high at silencer bracket..

I am now trying the third set, and these are also very tight in the head ports, but would fit if the chrome was rubbed off.... Again,the nearside pipe bend does look fairly good this time, but the bracket would have to be cut off the new pipe and re-welded to be correct.... Unfortunately the offside tab is a mile off, and the bend is even more inward towards  the rear wheel and silly upwards this time, hitting the footrest boss on the frame... the silencer simply could not be fitted.

How can these pipes vary so much from manufacturer to manufacturer- and ALL be so wrong?? I have still to be re-funded by one supplier (£300) after them receiving the return three weeks ago, and I have, so far, wasted about £60-65 on postage/return postage, what a drag. I would prefer if they supplied the pipes unchromed and with the brackets unattached-so you can fit, bend and weld bracket on correctly before returning for chroming?? Anyone else having/ had this aggro?

[Mike Farmer]

 

Obviously I have no idea who you have bought from. However FEKED MC's have a good reputation with pipes.

Info@feked.com  or Look up FEKED Classic MC's

Hope this helps I was told they make their own but I cant verify that,

Mike

[cdsdorset]

Unless they have changed their pipes are bent for them in Poole and chromed in the Midlands.

[berniej]

Have you tried Armours in Bournemouth?

Cheers,
Bernie

[cdsdorset]

I can't remember if the A65 was one of the sets I did when I was at Feked, if it was they will fit.
It is possible that they might sell you an unbracketed unchromed pair of pipes, tell them you are building a special.

[1660bob]

Hi All, thanks for the replies....

All three sets, in turn, are from three of the most well known and well established companies that are known to us All....Set 1 came from Bmgham, second set from B/mouth. After the second set went back, I spoke to Feked as I thought I might try their pipes. They  told me that their pipes are from L. F. Harris,(and they were waiting for stock)- which puzzles me as I think their website says or implies that they make them in house?- so does this mean Feked and L.F.Harris are connected in some way as a company? They are not too far apart geographically.
As Feked had no stock, I bought the third set from an independent supplier but they are stamped L.F H. underneath so would seem same source as Feked. Whilst the nearside pipe is possibly fittable (if the bracket is cut off /re-welded ruining the chrome!). The offside pipe is nowhere near so it looks like they will have to go back again- another £20 postage on top of the £10 post to get them to me and all a waste of everyones time.....I am running out of manufacturers (and money) fast!!
  I am minded to contact LF Harris directly and try to resolve the issue with them, for the good of all. Sadly, I fear that the pipes I have sent back so far will simply be re wrapped and sent out to the next mug, because no supplier so far has bothered to ask me what is wrong and why the pipes don`t fit- if they were as  confident in their product as their websites suggest, you would think they would want to stand behind it and sort it out?.
I have been in engineering one way or another for 45 years, and have restored many Brit bikes to near concours standard, I know that Brit bikes have shortcomings where a tweak and a couple of washers can help with fitting- it is obvious the factories did a bit of that!, but none of the above pipes fit properly. Perhaps its a parallel twin thing, - I have restored Square Fours- exhaust perfect fit (Armours I think). Vincent- exhaust a tight but perfect fit-(V.O.C. Spares Scheme, pipes bent on original factory machine!). AJS single-great fit(Unity Equipe). Norton Commando- Hmmm.... just about, lots of pulling and pushing, pipes touching/rubbing on cases, rubber mounts strained, always looked odd from the rear- lopsided.
I`m going back into the workshop today to assess the Harris pipes further, but it is obvious the offside pipe will never be near, I`ll keep you posted..... Bob C

[AdrianS]

One of the problems is that the jigs used to bend the pipes are generally very crude.
Wassell exhausts use an engine frame with a loosely mounted engine dropped in.
I took some pipes back to them directly and when saw the jig and how they checked the fit, it was not very precise to say the least, and because the head was loose, the pipes could be moved a few inches in any direction at the ends. They were very helpful in trying to get my pipes sorted though.
You will be very lucky to get perfectly fitting pipes. They can usually be tweaked using a couple of old fork stantions in each end to bend them a touch.

[1660bob]

Thanks Adrian,
     Been in workshop this morn. and now I`m of the opinion that the Harris nearside pipe can be made to fit, but the tab is 10mm below frame tab and slightly fouls the sidestand when its raised. As this is tucked away under the primary case a 10mm spacer will be discreet enough to cover the sins. The nearside pipe bend itself is looking quite good, especially as this pipe incorporates a lower horizontal section then kinks back upwards at the rear end, providing more clearence under the pri. dri. casing- something possibly lacking in the original pipes when you look at old pictures.

I`m not hopeful for the offside pipe though, maybe the fork leg treatment could help, but if that goes wrong cant send back of course- the fork leg treatment really should be done in the factory before chroming!!

Whilst I`m on, its not ALL Doom and Gloom- I have just took delivery of a pair of A65 silencers from BRITRURO. These look great to me, good quality, correct shape as near as makes no difference, and nearly identical length to the old BSA originals that came with the bike, -you wouldn`t really tell them apart.  So my initial impression of the Britruro silencers is very good indeed -they won`t be going back!! So Hats Off to Britruro, pity is they do not make the downpipes.......

[AdrianS]

Good news re silencers. Let us know how they sound. All the ones I've bought over the last few years have been very loud and harsh - not the deep boom that the originals had. I suspect no sound absorbent packing is used  - just tubes with holes in to break up sound waves which I dont like!

[1660bob]

I know what you mean- they can be a bit loud. The Britruro ones do also have a straight through perforated pipe, but this seems to be the standard nowadays. I note that some firms make an additional baffle tube that you can stuff into the centre and tackweld in- an admission of guilt in my view!!
I know my old silencers are BSA originals as I can see the complex baffle system inside them through the rat holes in the bottom!! The baffles are identical to the cutaway drawing on Page 57 0f  Peter Crawfords  "Thunderbolts And Lightning" Bob C

[cdsdorset]

Where are you based?
Probably just as cost effective to have a pipe made for you.

[idie]

I think most modern silencers are to loud. When I look in mine be they for the Shooting Star or the B33, I can see that the perforated tube with the sound deadening material behind only comes half way along the inside. The rest of the body is just an empty can.

[1660bob]

 Progress...... things are looking a bit better!
After wrestling with the offside pipe yesterday afternoon, I managed to tweak the fit a bit by springing the pipe using an old fork stanchion (Good Call Adrian!) so I could actually fit it to the bike this time with the pipe tab under the frame tab. The pipes are pretty tough and springy so it was a bit of a heave, but it`s made a world of difference to the fit. I have also managed to get the pipe fully into the head port now, right up to the shoulder inside, and on this side the pipe/frame tabs now line up pretty well with the pipe tab just a mm or so below the frame tab. This has improved things from "Norfolk Enchants" to " a bit out but might just...".
As things are at the moment, the pipe rear end is still pointing upwards and inwards bit, but nowhere near as bad. A bit more huffing and puffing today may get the job home....
Bob C