A65 Lightning project......

[Guitarzanbikes]

Hi Dave, I've found the article on the bike from 1996, have attached a page that has 3 pics that show the original exhaust. You can see how tight it is to the frame, so tight that in the bottom picture you can see how close the gearbox speedo drive is. The kickstart was always well clear of the pipe. The bend of the system was like a right side Triumph Bonnie TT pipe, in that looking down on either of them after the bend down from the cylinder head the pipes ran parallel to the frame, in the case of the A65 right alongside the outside of the frame rail where as Bonnie TT's tuck under the engine and inside the frame (hope that explanation makes sense to you). Mark

[geraldhattrick75]

Great info guys and it emphasises that I need to look at this from the siamese pipes (individually) through their proximity to the frame tubes, down to the silencer......

If I cant fix this problem with a lump hammer and angle grinder, now that you've both put me on the right track, then I'm not an engineer..... (which I'm not anyway...)


I'll keep you informed of progress.....

And thanks again,

Dave.

[geraldhattrick75]

Right then: new rubber (mostly) petrol pipes fitted, shortened throttle cable + new twistgrip/s so attention moved firmly to the 'zorst.....

I removed the short (nearside) pipe and offered up the offside pipe, after filing the mounting bracket to enable it to sit closer to the frame... Result- the kickstart still fouls the silencer- albeit not so much as previously.

My observation are: front pipe still needs to sit  closer to the frame and lower, which would enable the silencer to fit under the frame tube (and therefore further in).

My question is should the silencer mounting bracket sit under the frame lug ? (which would enable it all to sit lower albeit a lot of messing about would be involved as it would move the pipe below the cylinder head exhaust port...)


Any thoughts.... please?

thanks again for all your help.

Dave. 

[DAVE BRADY]

Hi Dave,

I have attached photo of one of my A65s.  They both have the same exhaust so look the same.  You will see that the pipe tucks in and with the footrest on I cannot get my finger between the footrest and the pipe but it does not touch and it can be cleaned.
Compare this with yours.

I have just noticed that you seem to have the silencer mounted on the rear set footrest mounting point rather than the standard position.  This will move the bulbous part forwards so the kickstart will catch it.  I thought the idea of the the longer 'in' pipe on the silencer was to move it all backwards a bit.  Also, because your pipe is not tucked in you seem to have the silencer mounting plate out board of the frame. Both of mine sit inboard.

Found a nice pic.  It looks like the silencer is sitting a couple of inches further back so giving more clearance for the kickstart.

Dave.

[geraldhattrick75]

Spot on Dave. I've got limited say in how far forward the silencer sits, it's only pushed onto the exhaust pipe an inch or so.....

There is however a way out of the fore and aft issue.... (not first choice but if all else fails...) https://www.classicbikeshop.co.uk/1-1-2-38mm-exhaust-extension-pipe.html (cutting it off at the appropriate point. They even do a slightly cranked version which could re position the silencer)

First things first though.
I'd like to get the whole front pipe section in closer to the frame, which looks pretty complicated and seems to hinge around the mounting bracket location.  (Do you know if the pipe mounting bracket sits over the frame mounting lug (as mine presently is) or does yours sit underneath it?

Then, once I've got it sitting closer to the frame, I've got to see if I can get both pipes into their respective exhaust ports...


I can see myself ending up buying a new front pipe section, cos I reckon that is causing most of the issues...... (which seems to pose its own problems in terms of accuracy.....)

Hey ho, it's what makes building these things so much fun.


Seriously though, many thanks for your help Dave. (and you Mark- obviously)

Dave...

[DAVE BRADY]

Good morning,

Just been out to the shed to have a look and one sits above the the frame tab and the other sits below.  One has had a repair at some point.  The front pipe on both is in to the silencer by several inches so I am confident that I could fit a Clubmans silencer correctly.  I suspect that the Clubmans silencer is shorter than standard and the extra length on the front pipe is to compensate for this to ensure that the overall length remains the same.
Mine are assembled with silencers so I cannot measure the length but there must be someone out there who will know how long the front pipe should be.  You would then be able to check yours and then get the supplier to take it a back and get the proper one.

Dave.

ps  Had a quick look on Feked.  Pipes for Clubman that look more like what Mark Described.  All you need now is the overall length to check.

[geraldhattrick75]

That's very kind of you Dave.... (hope you had a cuppa with you while undertaking the early hours foray )

Re taking the siamese pipes back if they are wrong, they came with all the associated parts when I first got the bike so nowhere to take em.

But I'm pretty sure they must have been fitted to the bike at some time, so they ought to be right...... (he said, keeping an open mind...)


My view is that if I can fit the front pipes closer to the frame while they are in the 'zorst ports', I can sort the length thing with that 'extenderie- thing'.

Thanks again Dave.

Dave.

[Guitarzanbikes]

Hi Dave, have dug out an old photo from the late 80's which shows the curve of the main exhaust and how tightly it tucks in under the engine. As I said previously Clubman pipes were unobtainable in the 90's, although if Feked have some of the right spec as Dave says then they may be worth a go as I have had decent stuff from them recently, as in I didn't have to completely re-machine/bodge to make fit/work as with some other suppliers out there! I know I had to keep welding those pipes up for a good few years before having to go with that Unity system as I didn't want to ditch that lovely kickstart. Keep up the good work Dave frustrating though it must be!

[Guitarzanbikes]

Hi Dave, found another photo from the front this time. Not the greatest photo but good enough to show the system after coming out of the head and the definite and pronounced though subtle curve taking it in towards the frame, very much like Bonnie TT pipes, hope the pics help.

[geraldhattrick75]

Thanks once again for the pictures guys they really ar helpful.

I've tried to recreate your Mark and mine seems to have the subtle curve inward, but as you can see from my piccie, the pipe bracket is up against the frame - preventing it from getting any closer...

So I reckon if I bend the pipe bracket to bring pipes closer that'd be a good starting point.

I can then ensure that both zorsts fit into the head ports and, if that works I'm gonna buy a pipe extender so that I can slide the silencer back 30mm....


Well, that's my plan anyway....

Can't thank you guys enough,
Dave.

[geraldhattrick75]

Right then I fitted the extender and can now operate the kickstart without catching the silencer........

[geraldhattrick75]

Although think I may have to do some work on silencer positioning...

But it looks like it is do-able, at last.

Thanks again folks...
Dave.

[DAVE BRADY]

Hi,

Just run it with the extender and no silencer fitted.

Dave.

[geraldhattrick75]

Tuned open pipe eh?

I'm liking it.....

[Guitarzanbikes]

Love the picture Dave, last time I saw an exhaust like that was on me Dad's old Rudge lol!