Frame number request for info.

[jh1]

Hi from north east.
If poss I was wondering if anyone could offer an answer to a question I have.
My bsa is a 1932 model L32/——
The frame is stamped Z3.... A 1932 acc to the bsa sales record / number although originally supplied with an ohv engine from factory.
The engine currently in frame is a Z2... again a 1932 engine - a side valve
Frame number stamped under seat / engine on casing
V5 documentation all good and matches current engine and frame so my search is for my interest / future possible parts needs.
My question / request for help

I have found another number stamped on the headstock - Im guessing that during the last 80 odd years of life there was a need to repair / replace headstock (accident or restoration needs)
The number is stamped into the metal - anyway the number is
B16049
Any ideas on year / model I have looked at frame number references on web sites but remain in the dark.
Hopefully I wont need any bearing repairs but just in case a model type age of model for my record would be a good thing to know.
Sorry it's a bit long winded.
Thanks look forward to replies.

[JulianS]

I think a B prefix makes it a pre 1930 number.

You may find someone has knowledge if you post a photo of your frame and say which model L32 you have, L32 2 had one sort of frame front, L32 3 a different one, and the 4 and 5 had a forged frame top member, different again. 

[jh1]

L32-3 frame (ohv- engine model)
fitted with
L32-2 engine (being a side valve engine)

[JulianS]

Cant see too much frame. The sidecar lug may indicate a heavier model frame. There was a B1 prefix for the 34-2 but no sidecar lug on that one.

[jh1]

Thanks julian - for replies - Is there a specific part of frame i need to photo.
Would i be safe in thinking that most late 20's early 30's bsa lightweight girder forked models headstocks would more than likely be the same length diameter and bearing cup sized fitment.
As it stands I don't need to replace anything but just have an unanswered question going round my head.
I guess if ever the need arose for front end headstock parts i would need to measure to check that parts would be compatable.
🍻

[JulianS]

Some head bearings are available from Cornucopia, worth scrolling down their webpage, it gives the models their repro bearings fit.

Is your top frame the forged I section or tubular.

Trying to find a frame front in the parts books which match the sidecar lug and shape at either end of the headstock.

Do you have the 1932 parts book?

[jh1]

Julian
My top tube is tubular
I don't have a parts book - i have a few books that i have bought and none of them lists parts numbers based, on my previous book / pamphlet buys being very generic i gave in trying to find good detailed L32 specific reference books I'm sad to admit.

[jh1]

few other pics

[JulianS]

Have sent you a PM, see under "My messages"

[jh1]

Appreciated greatly - thanks again.
Replied to your email address 👍

[David Samways]

I'm intrigued. I have an L32-3 - more or less a 350 ohv in the 250 cycle parts only produced for 1932. The front frame member was specific to this machine only and your frame doesn't look like mine. The next six models (L32-4 SV, L32-5 OHV (DL and BS), W32-6 SV, W32-7 (DL and BS)) used the 15-5785 top member.

I'd like to see a full photo of the machine as from what you've posted so far it doesn't look like my machine. It sounds more like an L32-5 if you say it was supplied with a 350 OHV engine, but the front forks - or at least the headlamp mounting bracket looks like one from a Sloper. It's very mysterious.

[jh1]

Hi david
Like you I am also intrigued
So here goes 👍
I have the details as supplied from the bsa historical records from vmcc and know my bike to be a bit of a 👀 lets say blend of parts.
The frame stamp under the seat Z3 is acc to records from a 1932 L32-3 that was sold for export to belguim. (as you know L32-3 was ohv model)
The engine stamp Z2 is acc to records part of a L32-2 model despatched to a garage at devon (kearsney garage)
I'm still researching it's history as i had nothing about it's life before me.
I believe it to have been restored mid 2000's  by a gent in europe who was an avid collector downsizing - the bike V5 numbers match the stamped numbers.
I now belive after finding the headstock number as mentioned above it has the headstock from another lightweight early bsa- late 20's early 30's -still digging a/w info on the number i have and what it relates to. ( vmcc register).
Hopefully you can see in the photo's that the tubular frame has a piggy back design that Im sure points to a model B not able to remember number poss B32 ish.
I now have a parts reference that will undoubtly help me to compare frame types models etc -  as I'm sure most on here will understand many stones to look under 👍

[jh1]

Just looked at frame and fittings parts list and you are correct
frame item number 27-5600 or 15-5781 (same frames)
are listed as being for B32-1 L32-2 and L32-3 models .

The frame that is used in my bike looks exactly like the item listed as
27-5591 
(double tubed bar at rear below seat)
and would you believe it 🤭
this item turns out to be for the 2.49 O.H.V B32-1 EXPORT model.
Frame numbers for the 1934 B34-1 start with prefix B1 So I'd guess at my headstock top frame rails being from a  model B34 rigid forked model.

🤔👴🏻👋🏻 🍻

[David Samways]

Just looked at frame and fittings parts list and you are correct
frame item number 27-5600 or 15-5781 (same frames)
are listed as being for B32-1 L32-2 and L32-3 models .

The frame that is used in my bike looks exactly like the item listed as
27-5591 
(double tubed bar at rear below seat)
and would you believe it 
this item turns out to be for the 2.49 O.H.V B32-1 EXPORT model.
Frame numbers for the 1934 B34-1 start with prefix B1 So I’d guess at my headstock top frame rails being from a  model B34 rigid forked model.

Mmm... well, the machine is obviously quite a mixture of parts. Your photos are far too small to get any real detail, but I don't think your conclusions above are right. I'm certainly no expert on these lightweight models, but it's definitely not a B34-1. The frame for this machine is completely different (29-4040) and only has a single downtube to take a completely different type of engine. If it were a B32-1 the frame number should be Z1 101 (at least for domestic models). I can't find anything on the web illustrating the B32-1 export machine, but I did find this French catalogue - looks the same as the domestic illustration to me.

I think the B number you've found on the headstock is a red herring - it could be a forging number or something stamped on by the Belgians or the occupying Germans during WW2. One thing for sure is that it's not a B34-1 and the headstock forging of a B34-1 would not fit a double downtube frame without extensive modification. There's certainly something odd about the headstock - the sidecar mount for one thing is odd so it could well have been knocked together from odds and ends during its 80 plus years of life - especially given life in occupied Europe.

[jh1]

Agree with you
But the picture of the b32-1 export frame is what I see / feel is the frame in my bike with the double cradle as shown in bsa parts book.
I came to the decision about the year based on the possibility that frames from early 30's would have been used throughout the years as the parts remained available - and stamped up with year assembled before they were exported - hence the B34 reference that matched the year of the date stamping - this was all my own thoughts with no evidence whatsoever
Sorry about size of piccy's but i can't seem to post decent size pictures due to size exceeded message and me being computer dumb.
Hopefully my attempt to get detail from the number from factory records will help if successful
Just noticed that the picture does show the sidecar lug.
The 1933-blue star junior also lists this frame number although that again is the year before  prefix letter A.
Ahh well guess my bsa earns the name BitSA alright - 😎🍻