Electronic Ignition

[Barnsey]

Hi All,

   Following on from my struggles to kickstart my C15, I even got as far as researching the option to fit a kickstart. 

  Whilst this is not impossible, and has been done, it isn't really a bolt on job.  However the lovely AI suggested that many fit 12V electronic ignition as a way to make kick starting easier, by providing a fatter spark at low RPM (e.g. Boyers Branson).

  Is this true, or is it a myth that this would help? 

  As I understand it the high spark voltage is generated by the magnetic flux lines collapsing and cutting through the inductor in the ignition coil at high speed.  This doesn't seem to have much to do with  supply voltage, but maybe I am wrong. 

[Derek996]

I can understand that electronic ignition will be an advantage over magneto or energy transfer ignition but I cant see it making much difference to the spark compared to a points system; provided the points are in good condition and the gap is set correctly. But points will wear affecting the gap and can suffer from dirt and oxidation. An electronic system will suffer from neither of these so should provide a good accurately timed spark all the time.

[rhyatt]

Given the mileage that "our" bikes do, it would take years of use to wear out/erode points.
A set of points adjusted correctly , will give a perfectly adequate spark to start an engine.
I think your other post proved this when your pal started your bike easily.

Electronic is not a panacea

[Barnsey]

Okay, I'll park that thought for now. 

  I've been kicking away on the bike again this morning, but no go.  I even strapped on my exercise weight belt. 

[Jazzman]

I'm not sure it will help, but my 1960 c15 has electronic ignition and the bike starts first kick every time.
That may sound a little far fetched but it is the truth, firsdt kick from stone cold and she fires up.

Does it do anything when you kick it over, maybe the odd fire but it doesn't pick up?
If you get nothing, have you trried a shot of petrol straigt into ther plug hole, and see if you get at least one fire off.

[limeyrob]

It may not be an ignition problem.  The electronic ignition makes for more stable and accurate timing and a smoother advance curve but it makes little difference to starting.

[Barnsey]

Well, the plug is wet.  I tried squirting Easy Start into the bore but it didn't help.  The carburettor is new, and it was running yesterday, so the timing must be close to correct.  What else is there?  It must be technique, but it is getting beyond a joke. 

 My spare battery is on charge, so I can try that next. 

  I am getting more confident about kicking through without worrying about it kicking back, but it hasn't helped yet.

  I am not sure if it has fired at all, or if it has just been the 'chuff chuff' of the compressions. 

  I even had thoughts of buying a roller starter, but they aren't cheap! 

[limeyrob]

Where in the country are you?  I have a roller starter you're welcome to borrow for a few weeks.  I used it to sort out a 350 Matchless that just refused to run.  The roller allowed me to make adjustments and get it to the point where its an easy kick starter.  I'm near Heathrow.

[rhyatt]

I'm in shaftesbury if that's nearer

[Barnsey]

I checked the voltage on the battery and it was down to 4V.  So I dropped in the fresh battery which showed 7V.  Straight away there was a difference, the bike coughed and tried to start, but it didn't last.  After a few kicks it was back to nothing doing. 

So, it looks like the battery isn't charging.  After sitting ticking over yesterday, it should have been nicely charged up. 

[Barnsey]

Thanks for the kind offer of roller starters, I am near Portsmouth, so not super close either way.I'll investigate the charging first. 

[Jazzman]

Could be a duff condenser that's near end of life.

Make sure the bike's not too advanced. To begin with it's better to have it a gnats retarded. Have you tried kicking it without the plug in to dry the bore, plus Dry the plug and don't tickle the carb to start. Too wet will kill the spark.
 
Plug cap might be faulty. You could try bare wire straight to the plug.

[Barnsey]

Well, the rectifier has definitely had it. I started buzzing out the circuit and the terminal fell straight off. It was oxidised and had already been badly patched once. 

[Jazzman]

As long as you have dc to the points it should work. The rectifier shouldn't matter in terms of ignition.

[Derek996]

Since you seem to have a 6V system make sure there is a good 6V getting to the coil. The voltage at the coil should be more or less the same as across the battery. A 6V system is more susceptible to voltage drops due resistance at switch terminals, connectors etc. Which is quite probable on a 50-60 year old bike.