Victor 441

[Victor]

Hi everyone
I've just picked up a 1969 441 Victor special
I've fitted a new loom, electronic ignition and it's been strobed up .
Having gone through all the starting techniques by Rupert ratio and any other information I could find, I am struggling to start it. When it does start, it's more Luck than judgement and when it is running, it goes really well.
Any advice that you can give me on starting this little beauty would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you
Gary

[limeyrob]

Go though the routine you are using and after a few kicks of not starting pull the plug and see it its wet or dry.  Until you get to know the feel of an engine its hard to know whether its flooded or starving.
I suspect it will be dry, if so tickle much more and try again.

[Victor]

Hi
Thanks for that
Plug has got a trace of fuel on and it's a good colour from where it has been running
It's had a new carburettor fitted as well. Do they like being flooded at every attempt to start?

[limeyrob]

Start with a decent flooding on the tickler then two full kicks on the lifter to get the fuel in the cylinder. That should settle whether its getting enough fuel or too much.

[franknjan]

I find with my victor, which has a monobloc carburetor,starts best from cold when.
I turn the tick over screw in 1/2 turn
I turn on the fuel, but don't tincle.
Turn the engine over via kick-start with decompressor open for 3 or 4 slow strokes.
Get piston over top dead centre using valve lifter, turn on ignition, (cross fingers) and kick.  It usually starts after 3 or 4 kicks, sometimes less. Try to avoid turning the throttle,  the half turn on the tick over screw is enough.
After the engine has warmed up, I turn the tick over down, but not too slow a speed. This will help when restarting with a warm engine.

[iansoady]

I would suggest the classic big single technique assuming you have a valve lifter.

Close the air lever.
Lightly tickle the carb till you just see petrol flow.
With ignition off and throttle just barely open, gently rotate the engine with the kickstart till you reach compression.
Raise the valve lifter and ease the engine just past compression with the kickstart.
Ignition on; give the kickstart a long swinging kick (not a sudden jab). Keep the throttle just slightly open and don't twitch it back and forth.

If this fails, repeat the process.

The fact it runs well when you manage to start it suggests that plug, ignition circuit and carb settings are not too far off.

[Victor]

I agree
It's so close
Thanks everyone
I've pretty much Dunn everything everyone has said almost to the letter.
Try again tomorrow

[V500]

To be fair, the BSA big unit singles have always had a bad reputation for starting, and that why some people have been known to use starter rollers for the 1st start of the day.
Sadly it seems to go beyond using the usual Big Single starting technique though.

[limeyrob]

Its not just the unit singles, I had a Gold Star back in the day and it was a pig. Looking back it probably needed a mag overhaul but the margin between not enough ticking and flooded was tiny. It was also very fussy about plugs.
But the unit singles with coil "should" at least have a decent spark when kicking.
I would err on the side of flooding and work back from that and pull the plug to see if it really is flooded.
I have a Matchless single and its taken a while to master that.  If I flood it too much I have to kick on the lifter with a wide throttle to clear the cylinder. If I get a spit back its sure sign the mix is right and its time to try again.

[Daz]

Theres one thing that I've found that works well with Gold Stars that could help you start the 441.
Gold Stars have high gearing which means a full swing of the kickstarter may not be enough to get the engine from 'just past compression' back to the point when it fires. I take them past compression and then maybe another quarter of a turn of the kickstart before giving a full swing to start it.

[Derek996]

Its not just the unit singles, I had a Gold Star back in the day and it was a pig. Looking back it probably needed a mag overhaul but the margin between not enough ticking and flooded was tiny. It was also very fussy about plugs.
But the unit singles with coil "should" at least have a decent spark when kicking.
I would err on the side of flooding and work back from that and pull the plug to see if it really is flooded.
I have a Matchless single and its taken a while to master that.  If I flood it too much I have to kick on the lifter with a wide throttle to clear the cylinder. If I get a spit back its sure sign the mix is right and its time to try again.

I've had 3 Gold Stars and they were all exactly like that. If it hadn't started after the 4th kick it was flooded. The answer was to pull in the valve lifter and kick it over a few times with the throttle wide open. There would be a "Woomph" from the exhaust and then it would usually start ok after that. My current B32 Competition is much the same.

[V500]

Is it? My ZB32 GS is incredibly easy to start. Even on the original T10TT9 carb is was easy. Pretty much guarantee a start in one or two gentle prods, and much easier than the three B31's in our club.
It has got a new Amal Premier and a EasiCap conversion though.

[Kev D]

I've just gone through some erraic starting problems with my Victor . Advice from  forum members led me to a glitch with the way the electronic ignition  had been wired.
Since then starting has been reliable( l type this with fingers so crossed they are knotted😀)
     I've had unit singles before so the starting routine was ingrained. Tickle, take it over tdc  a whiff of throttle etc .That's  what worked with my C15 and B40s anyway.
     However by experimenting l've found the  Victor ,when cold , starts with much less fuss( no spit or kick  backs)  with the throttle closed  .
    My routine is .Free the clutch with a few spins with the lever pulled-in- probably not necessary but an old habit.
    Turn on petrol, tickle and the very second petrol appears turn the tap off. Again probably not necessary but once the carb is full l don't  need any more fuel going to it.
    Find  compression and using the decompressor take the kick-start down a bit further than feels "right" . This allows me to get a bit of easy momentum  going before l hit compression with the kick though .
    Starting is usually a one or two kick affair. Only as it fires do l open the throttle.
    So far so good , as long as l remember to turn the petrol back on that is 🙄. I still try to avoid having an audience  though!😁
     
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
     
   
     

[Derek996]

Is it? My ZB32 GS is incredibly easy to start. Even on the original T10TT9 carb is was easy. Pretty much guarantee a start in one or two gentle prods, and much easier than the three B31's in our club.
It has got a new Amal Premier and a EasiCap conversion though.

It actually starts very easily, usually one or two kicks but I have occasionally flooded it and the full throttle kicks with the valve lifter held in clears it.

[scifi]

I agree with the 'turn the idle screw in' idea, but I would do the same thing by slightly twisting the twist-grip 1/8 inch.  This makes the carb suction noise better.

Also once it has warmed up, be methodical to set the slow running screws.  Err a tiny bit on the rich side always helps with starting and acceleration.