Electronic Ignition

[limeyrob]

I now avoid gel batteries.  I've found they do not take abuse so well and I've had several fail earlier than I would expect for the money.  I cheap basic small Japanese battery does fine.  These simple systems can over charge and so you want a vent tube and check the level every few months.

[V500]

Whereas I always use those cheap £14 maintenance-free batteries from Ebay etc. Last a couple of years, but for that price I'm happy.
No acid spills or topping up required either.

[limeyrob]

Perhaps its because they are cheap : )  I paid a premium for "long lasting" and they were anything but.

[Derek996]

It makes sense to do away with the Lucas system of varying the alternator output by switching  in/out coils depending on the load and to fit a modern rect/regulator. The battery on my Ducati Scrambler, a Yuasa AGM battery, lasted 11 years. The one on the Supersport that I sold last month was 9 year sold and still working well and these are bikes with electric starters. The key to long battery life is good voltage regulation.

[Barnsey]

I fitted the new £5 rectifier.  First kick the bike fired but didn't catch.  Second kick the same, and then after that it didn't want to know. So I put some charge in the battery, but the result was similar. 

  I ordered a regulator yesterday, so let's hope that fixes the issue. 

[V500]

With respect a new regulator isn't going to fix a bike which doesn't fire. A charged battery is all it needs. You need a running engine and charging alt before the reg becomes into play.

[rhyatt]

You can always try starting your bike with the battery actually on charge , won't hurt , gives a know voltage into the bike.
If it does fire and stay running, unclip the clips then.

[Barnsey]

Maybe it depends what reg you go for, but my understanding is that the reg will boost a sagging voltage if the battery is getting a bit flat, and it sounds like I should be using a sealed battery in conjunction with a reg anyway. 

  Alternatively I have a dry acid battery on the shelf which I could drop in, which I bought for a previous project and was never used.  I might have to nip out for some battery acid.  Do they still sell that in Halfords?

All of that said, I have managed to get the bike to start twice this afternoon. It looks like choke, but no tickle might be the way to go.

  Weirdly, it sometimes fires and tries to start, when I am just slowly turning it over feeling for TDC.  Then, when I really kick it, it doesn't want to know.  I wonder if it might be a timing issue?!  That said, once it is running it sounds absolutely fine. 

  I might have to check the timing.

[Derek996]

...Alternatively I have a dry acid battery on the shelf which I could drop in, which I bought for a previous project and was never used.  I might have to nip out for some battery acid.  Do they still sell that in Halfords?

I think you will struggle to find acid anywhere now. It's sale was made illegal several years ago following a spate of acid attacks.

Weirdly, it sometimes fires and tries to start, when I am just slowly turning it over feeling for TDC.  Then, when I really kick it, it doesn't want to know.  I wonder if it might be a timing issue?!  That said, once it is running it sounds absolutely fine. 

If it's too advanced it will kick back but you'll know about that soon enough. Too much retard though can make for difficult starting where the bike will fire but won't pick up. And of course the correct setting for the pilot mixture is important but you can't get that right until you've got the bike to run.
I usually kick over my ZB32 on a closed throttle and it starts easily, 1st or 2nd kick. But on one occasion, when the engine was still cold I screwed up the throttle stop a little to keep it running while I put my gloves. I rode off, got to my destination and parked up. An hour later when I tried to start the bike it wouldn't even fire. I got a push and away it went. When I got home I realised the idle speed was a bit high so I wound it back down for a better idle. Next day starting was restored to normal.
There are so many variables that affect good starting that you have to be methodical and only make one adjustment at a time and note any difference.

[rhyatt]

Even if you're lucky to find actual wet acid anywhere, you still need to check the Specific Gravity of it having soaked into the empty dry battery.
Filling batteries with acid etc is not a 5 minute job.
Just use a spare 6v battery connected to your bike , maybe on charge still and try to fire your bike up.

I did PM you a few days ago

[V500]

I might have to check the timing.

Maybe, but it would be better to go back to basics and check everything again from scratch. Then again, a timing issue isn't going to cause a  "it fires a couple of times, then it's dead" scenario.
Jumping from one possibility to another is just a waste of your time.

[Barnsey]

An update for today.

  I added a grounding wire to the rectifier because the shell on those square ones isn't grounded, unlike the old style ones. I am sure this pushed the current up a bit, although the smiths meter doesn't have a scale.   Actually I am tempted to see if I can buy a digital gauge that would fit in that hole.  Not very in keeping but it would give more meaningful info, possibly including voltage. 

  More importantly, I tried a change of tack re kick starting.   I started the kick with the engine just before TDC, rather than after, and that worked, it fired straight up.   Is this Okay as a technique?   Or might I come unstuck? 

 

[rhyatt]

As long as the + or - terminal of the little rectifier (depending on whether you are pos or neg earth) goes to the same earth.
The little 12v square rectifier work well to get your charging going.
Eventually , you'll swop it for a reg/rec to get regulation sorted.
Get him started and do your voltage checks

As far as starting technique , if it works reliably for you , then why not !!

[limeyrob]

Kick starting? Anything that works is good.  Starting just before TDC gives you a longer kick to build up flywheel momentum. Because you are light this may be the solution.
Is it now running well enough to set the idle mixture and speed?

[Barnsey]

I set out to set up the idle and mixture, but my workshop was filling up with fumes, even with both doors wide open.  So next I need to get it outside again.  Maybe tomorrow. Unfortunately the steps make getting it in and out less than trivial.  Maybe I should build a ramp.

  I have been practising the kick with the switches off.  I think the tricky thing is the the motion of the kickstart changes from vertical to horizontal , at the bottom of the stroke. It is harder to keep the kick going at the bottom, but vital in order to kick through TDC.  I am sure that those used to doing this wouldn't even notice.  Maybe that is why my unorthodox technique worked.