B44 not starting..

[B44SPECIALSTEVE]

Hi everyone,  looking for help with my Victor B44.  Got the bike last year and have not been able to kickstart it!!

I took the Amal concentric carb off soon after getting the bike and gave it a proper clean before putting it back on.

I can normally bump start the bike and it appears to run well.  (After a bump start) I adjusted both throttle stop and air screw and bike idles very nicely.

I've spent hours in the garage trying to kickstart to no avail.  I came close today when the bike 'chugged' for a second or two before dieing.

New battery fitted and i have spark.  The spark plug appears wet after trying to start the bike and is black / suit in colour.  I usually dry the spark plug after trying to start it a few times.   

My starting procedure is ok I think..  tickle carb, ignition on and use decompression lever to find compression stroke.   Then give it an almighty kick.  I've tried choke on and off and various positions in between.  I've held the throttle fully open and fully closed and various positions in between.  I've been most close to starting with choke fully off and throttle fully closed. 

Electronic ignition fitted and I'm assuming my timing is good as it runs and idles fine (after a bump start).

Not sure what to try next?  Anyone have any suggestions that could help me start the bike? 

I thought about purchasing a new carb but at £200+ I'm hoping to try every other possibility before doing so!

Thanks very much.

[cdsdorset]

Do you take it just over TDC?

[rhyatt]

As suggested , kick up to compression , then use valve lifter and ease the engine just over tdc , then release valve lifter , bring the kickstart lever back up to the top again and give a good swing.

[B44SPECIALSTEVE]

Do you take it just over TDC?

Do you take it just over TDC?

Thanks for reply cdsdorset.  Yes, just over.  Which in itself seems tricky.  I normally kick it thru maybe 3 or 4 times with compression lever activated, then when I feel resistance at the top of the kickstart arm I use lever again to move kickstart down, (to around about a 90 degree angle) until I hear compression, reset the kickstart, switch ignition on and give it a good kick.

I managed to start it last night and had it running for a 5 minutes before switching off. However, I couldn't start it again! 

[B44SPECIALSTEVE]

As suggested , kick up to compression , then use valve lifter and ease the engine just over tdc , then release valve lifter , bring the kickstart lever back up to the top again and give a good swing.

Thanks for reply rhyatt.

Managed to start it last night!  Used this exact method, had it running for 5 mins before turning off.  However, couldn't restart it! 

I'm considering changing the carb.  What do you think?   Thanks

[scifi]

If you start your kick just after TDC, try pushing the kickstarter down - and forwards - at the end of the swing.   Maybe hold the throttle just 1/8th open.

Once it is running set the slow running screws for best tickover, but not too slow.  The mixture screw should be adjusted to give a peak in revs.

( btw. Do ACU events still require the throttle to fully close in trials and MotoX scruitenising..? )

[rhyatt]

Spending a couple of hundred quid is the last resort !!!

Get it going , my b44 was a bit harsh on ticklover (I think 10:1 compression maybe) , so keep it , as suggested,  a shade fast by the tick over screw.
They won't thump over like older bikes.
Once you get it started , get it running ,nice and warm , find a steady tick over between the 2 carb screws .
Air screw start at 1.5 turns out from fully in , tweak as desired

[limeyrob]

I think its a combination and technique and idle mixture adjustment.  By technique I mean how much ticking, how much choke  and exactly where to set the piston to before kicking.  There's no substitute for experimenting.
Despite being machines these old bikes seem to vary a lot.  My Matchless only starts on a closed throttle and my BSA only on a half open one.  Try different amounts of tickling, with and without the choke, closed and part open throttle and once it warm, with and without a tickle.
One of the hardest things to get right is how much to tickle, if at all, for a warm start.  And get a spare plug, I messed up my idle settings when actually the plug was duff.

[Jim S]

It sounds to me that your pilot jet may be blocked. I had the same problem with starting my B50 and starting improved significantly after I was able to clear the pilot jet.

Remove the pilot air screw and the drain on the bottom of the float bowl on the carburetor or remove the float bowl completely. Spray carb cleaner into the air screw hole using the carb cleaner extension straw. Carb cleaner should drip out of the bottom of the carburetor. If not, find a stiff piece of 0.016in dia wire. A guitar string works well. Use a straw from a WD40 can or the carb cleaner straw as a guide and feed the wire and guide into the pilot air screw hole. Alternate poking the wire in with sprays of carb cleaner until you get carb cleaner flowing out the bottom of the carburetor.

Let us know how you get along.

Jim

[rhyatt]

Often, when hot , you need a whisker of throttle to help hot starts.
This is due to the residual heat in the engine and carb vaporising the fuel whilst sitting hot.
This builds up a cloud of fuel vapour which can flood the plug.
So a bit of throttle gives extra air to clear this cloud of surplus fuel

If you look at a car rev counter it will run fast after start and then slow back to tickover

[Andy Kay]

Hi,
I hope you've had some success getting your B44 running.
When I got my B44 it took us half a day to get it to run. It didn't help that the valve lifter wasn't doing its job but that's sorted now.
I'm fairly sure that our problem wasn't helped by the fuel.
This ethanol dosed rubbish doesn't keep well so make sure you use fresh fuel.
I turn on the fuel and tickle the carb, then with the ignition off I kick her over a couple of times then turn on the ignition with a whisper of throttle kick her up. She usually fires first or second kick.

[B44RVictor]

It's a procedure that needs practice. If flooded firstly take the plug out and kick over a few times to dry out the cylinder.  Replace plug.  Ensure petrol is less than 3 months old, the newer the better!  Then tickle (one push) until fuel dribbles out of tickler.  Without valve lifter slowly use kick starter until you feel compression (solid).  Then at this point use valve-lifter to release compression and depress kick starter to just below half way.  Close valve lifter and bring kick starter back up ready for kick.  Don't use choke - it shouldn't be needed unless really cold.  Open up throttle by about 1mm turn and hold it open at that.  Depress kick start slowly and firmly.  If it kicks-back you've probably got the throttle open too much (ouch!).  Mine will kick-back if the throttle is open too far.  Start procedure again if it doesn't fire-up.  If everything is Ok, it should start.  I can often get mine up and running first kick, sometimes 3.  They're not bad starters when you get used to them.  My B44 will always kick back with fuel older than 3 months!  Hope this helps.

[Derek996]

A technique I learned with Gold Stars when flooded, instead of taking the plug out, was to pull in the valve lifter lever and kick it over several times with the throttle held fully open. After 5 or 6 kicks there would usually be a WHOOMF from the exhuast as the extra mixture ignited. I would then carry out the starting as normal without any further carb tickling and the bike would start with no further issues.