Sidecar on late 60s single frame?

[iansoady]

I have a 1969 B40/B25 rolling chassis with a Suzuki DRZ400 engine fitted. It's a great machine. However I am thinking of the future and already struggle a bit with some heavier bikes. I was idly considering trikes and modern sidecar outfits but (a) they're mostly grotesque, (b) I'd like to keep the B'Zuki.

I've always hankered after a Norton Wasp modified for road use but have come to the conclusion that it may just be a bit over the top for what I want. So I've started considering whether I could fit a lightweight - maybe trials type? - chair to the B'Zuki. I anticipate issues re attaching the mountings to the frame. Also O wpould possibly need sidecar fork yokes if such things exist.

Has anybody done such a thing? Opinions, views, experiences all welcome.

[DAVE BRADY]

Hi,

I think that these frames were used in sidecar trials with a lightweight sidecar attached so the frame will be up to it.  Several lightweight sidecars for road use were/are available for MZ 250s from Watsonian and Jawa 350s from Velorex.  There will be others out there.

Dave.

[iansoady]

Thanks Dave. It's early days but there's a trials chair on ebay at the moment. But I'm not ready yet....

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/157294283240


Also a Norton Wasp but I fear it would be too much for me these days.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/286815293103

[DAVE BRADY]

Hi,

Have you ever ridden an outfit before? 

Dave.

[iansoady]

Yes, I had a Norton 16H with a Watsonian Avon as sole transport for a couple of years in the early 1970s. I must admit my first attempts at negotiating left hand bends were interesting - to spectartors - terrifying for me. I nearly wiped out a milk float on the first one.

[limeyrob]

I too rode an outfit in the 70's, but I would not do it now.  There were more about then and drivers had a better awareness of the limitation and constraints on an outfit.  Now I don't think so and cars (SUVs) have got a lot bigger.

[idie]

I wouldn't recommend a trials chair. It would make the track very narrow,and reduce stability. Very hard for you just getting back to it.

[DAVE BRADY]

Hi,

A trials chair could be bit too light without a passenger to keep it down. The Wasp would be more stable as it is wider and probably heavier but would still need some ballast.
There must be someone on this Forum with one sitting in the way at the back of a shed.

Dave.

 

[45Brit]

I was involved with a Norton Wasp prepared for the Lands End Trial, quite a few years ago now. It was absolutely terrifying on the road. I wouldn't recommend the experience to anyone.

There is a Hinckley Triumph Bonneville with a single seat Watsonian around these parts. It looks rather tidy but on the whole, I'd agree with the view that they don't really belong in modern traffic.

[idie]

Funny that! I'm just putting my Steib chair back on my B33.It has been 25 years since last used. After having been knocked off my M33 and spending 6 weeks in hospital with a smashed leg and a missing finger my confidence on riding solo is gone. My B33 has got an electric start fitted which makes life easier.

[iansoady]

I think Dave and Idie are right regarding a trials chair, having given the matter some thought. I also agree that the Wasp would be too much of a handful for me these days. When I rode in long distance trials in the 1990s there were a couple of these around and I was always impressed by them. It was advisable to stay well clear of the back end when they took off, showering spectators with gravel and small dead animals.

To be honest I don't see why an outfit should be any more of a problem on today's roads than a solo and I tend to stick to quieter roads anyway. A few weeks ago I was nearly wiped out on a local roundabout when a Discovery decided it wanted the bit of road I was using on the B'Zuki. It may be that an outfit might have offered more of an obstacle.

If anyone does have the proverbial back of the shed item gathering dust I'd definitely be interested. This is the B'Zuki by the way:

[Aquarius]

It's probably worth having a word with Dave Angel of F2 Motorcycles, he has fitted sidecars to all sorts of bikes.
This is his sidecar site
https://simplysidecars.co.uk/

[iansoady]

Yes, he posts on the facaeache sidecar group and has been very positive about my plan. But his prices are a bit salty. There are a few projects on ebay and facebook, some just needing a lick of paint, others far gone. I'm trying to get one with fittings so I don't have to make too much.

My current rather shapeless plan is one mount using the reinforcing web behind the steering head - suitably reinforced; something picking up at the bottom of the front downtube / engine mounting area; possibly a bar through the middle of the swinging arm spindle (or maybe use the centre stand mounting as I won't need it); and finally a mount either clamped to the seat tube or using the top suspension mount bolt although that may be a bit weedy.

[iansoady]

I may be regretting this.... but I've seen a rather tatty but complete Steib (S500?) on ebay - asking a little over £1200. I was initially idly looking at restoration projects but this one appeared and I'm sorely tempted. What does the team think?

I've always loved the Steibs My wife is Greek and I remember seeing dozens of them buzzing around Piraeus, usually hitched to elderly BMW singles back in the 1970s. There are probably stacks still in back gardens.

There are a few Watsonian Palmas and the like for sale but none have the class of this. I feel it my be priced a bit optimistically. If I go for it I'd plan to store it probably till next year before tidying it up.

I've been struggling to find useful information about Steib chairs - any pointers? I think the S500 was designed for bigger bikes but the Zuki engine should cope - I think.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/236283575792

ps there's another one - looks much better condition but rather an eye-watering colour:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/257018884282

Very poor photos but closer to me and may be worth a closer look.

[idie]

I think Steib did a S300 and S200 designed for smaller bikes