Just starting to work on my new thunderbolt and need some advice from the knowledge out there. What is the best way to check the oil pump is working as the bike has been stood for some time but the oil in tank looks immaculate. So me being of a suspicious nature want to check the oil is circulating before running for more than a few seconds.
Thanks
Take out the spark plugs to make it easy to kick over. Then kick it over several (many) times and you should see oil start to flow through the return pipe in the oil tank. When oil is showing here, slacken off the oil feed nuts to the rockers, put your finger over the return pipe hole and kick it over a few more times. Should get oil seepage from the rocker nuts showing the oil is getting to the top of the engine.
If you have the ignition turned on you should also see the oil light go off after few kicks. Although it only takes about 7psi it another indication of the pump working.
Dave.
Thanks both. Ill give it a try today.
:) :) :)
I get the impression that in the factory they were just started and then the return flow was checked. . Last time that I did it I had to kick it about 90/100 times before it flowed.
Though its probably what I would do again.
Mike 8) 8) 8)
Hi,
If all the oil has been drained then there can be an airlock so bleeding through the pressure release valve may be necessary. I would say that if you cannot get a return by kicking it or at least getting the oil light off then do not start it as a few minute with no oil to the big ends could be disastrous. Even putting oil in the sump will only show returning oil and not feed oil.
Dave.
:) :) :)
Your point about the PRV is very relevant. I've just had a read, and one of my books says to take out the PRV and leave it until oil runs out then do the kick start bit.
Every where you look theres something different. I'd still like to know what they did in the factory.
Mike 8) 8) 8) 8)
Not sure about remove PRV and wait and see - oil would then need to leak past the pump gears and the ball valve and spring ?
If you removed the PRV you would still need to kick it over. Oil coming from here as you kick it would confirm that the feed side of the pump as well as the return was working.
I can see this is going to be fun!! ;D ;D. Unfortunately the 2 warning lights in the headlight have no wires going to them. so no oil pressure light.
Also the 2 oil pipes come from the bottom of the oil tank so cannot see if any oil is returning. Have cranked the engine 40 times and no variation in oil level!!
Unfortunately my manual has every other page missing in the relevant section. The good news is it has great compression.
Agree with Pete.
Kick it over with the PRV out and at least any potential air locks will be drawn through the pump.
Although, let's not lose any sleep on this.
I must admit, I have never gone to such lengths on my rebuilds, I've kicked it over with the plugs out and then just started it up and waited for the Oil light to go out.
I think we may be too risk averse re this as, if we think it through, during re-assembly, we will have squirted oil on the shells before replacing the conrods, pumped oil into the crank via the timing side journal or quill if its an SRM conv. thereby filling up the sludge trap pocket in the crank. Plus oiled the bores as we refitted the barrels and squirted oil down the rocker feed connection in the head - all with clean, fresh oil. As such, there will be an adequate film on the surfaces to withstand the stress on the engine at tickover without any load. At tickover the stress is minimal, so in my humble opinion, damage is unlikely whilst you wait for the oil to circulate, provided you don't rev it too hard.
Hi,
Yes. Still turn it over with the PRV out. The return can be seen in the tank near the top of the return pipe.
With all the cavities full of oil the risk is reduced but why take a chance.
Interestingly I had never had a situation were oil would not return on the kickstart. Usually a dozen or so kicks does the job and this was so in a recent rebuild when after 200 miles I decided to change the oil. Rather than remove the drain plug on the tank I use a hand suction to remove the oil from the tank.
Refilled the with fresh oil and after few kicks no oil pressure when I would have expected say 20psi.
I ended up removing the PRV to get rid of what must have been an air lock caused by the suction of the pump. How? I do not know but better safe than sorry. I have a belt and braces on my riding trousers.
Dave.
And I thought Ducatis were awkward ;D ;D
Or should I not use that language on this forum.
Hi,
I have had oil system air lock issues in the past.
I remove the PRV, block the oil tank vent and pressurise the oil tank by blowing into it. You'll get a nice taste of oil and oil coming from the PRV. Then replace the PRV and ensure you have 1/2 pint of oil in the crankcase by first dropping the sump plate, replace it and pour the 1/2 pint of oil in the timing hole at the front of the crankcase or the rocker cover.
Kick over a few times and then as Editor says. Check the return, when the oil issues put your finger over and feel the return pressure so the rockers get a good oiling quickly too the top end. Then watch the return flow until you are confident.
If that don't work bleed the pipework at the header under the engine and repeat. If that don't work pray.
Best wishes...
:) :) :)
I think that I'll go back to just starting it.
Mike 8) 8) 8) 8)
Hi Mike,
Love the trike :) :) 8)
I have only gone through that procedure after a rebuild, changing the header o rings and an air lock stopped flow. Normally I just start it.
Best wishes...
:) :) :)
Thanks for that. Yep the guy did a good job for me. (Mind it was my son---I guess he's looking after his inheritance)
I had always just started until quite recently. Its a job to imagine the energy required to swing an old tractor engine until the oil pumps around the system. So its always been start but no revs and be ready to kill it quickly.
Mie 8) 8) 8)