Hi everyone I am new on here as well as to BSA`s so please bear with me as to my questions I have regarding my ride, first off I have had a look at the forums and found out a lot about how to do things on here and that has been well helpful, I have a rep Rgs and was told it has been built from the ground up......and yes it has but I went out on my first ride and had all sorts of problems oil coming out all over the clutch side of the bike and all underneath so I have had the inner and out primary side off 4 times...... now found out that it was chucking oil out of the breather ( told you I was new to BSA`s ) but I have fixed all that now... by the way it had only done 2 miles on the road since 2003 .....now its done 130 miles but it was meant to have a gearbox overhaul as well as everything else done,,,,but in second gear there is a slight whine and in third there is a really loud whine, now in first and top it is fine, the problem is I am going to wait to strip the gearbox down over winter but was wondering where to get parts like bush's gears etc from as cant seem to find anywhere to go for things like that so if you know where I can get them please tell me as I am at a loss with that one, also if you might know where the most likely thing that is coursing the whine, and just to say I tried using EP90 oil then was told to use GP50 oil and well both did not make any difference at all so I dont think it`s got anything to do with oil as it is so loud more so in the 3 gear.........anyway your help will be most appreciated and I look forward for your help.... Thanks Mo
I haven't looked for your specific parts, but I think anyone with a BSA should check the Draganfly Motorcycles website for parts and information; It's awesome!
Thanks mark I have look there and the 3 rd gear I know is not stocked......but that is where I have been getting some of my parts from.....thanks again mark.
with no details other than RGS replica, its not much help.
year and engine number may help more.
then , find part number in relevent parts book and google search or ebay search usually finds hard to find parts also google will often turn up another stockist other than Drags
Well Chaz......as I say I am new to this so cut a bit of slack...lol it`s a 1962 have not got the engine number to hand right now and as for part numbers well I have not got a parts book to get them from also as I said its the first BSA I have owned so that will be one thing on my list to get unless you know where I can go to get a download for one on line.........But Noted ...as I said the box is not going to be pulled out till over winter before I know what parts I am going to need,,,,,,,so That`s why I am asking where is the best place to fined them.....and yes I know Ebay is a good place to start.
gearbox diagram attached
https://www.draganfly.co.uk/bsa/bsa/a710--b3133--c101112--m202133/category/1097-rigid-plunger-a-group-s-arm-a-b-group-and-all-4-speed-c-group
:)
sorryMo a rush to get to work, Nightshift.
Ive posted on other threads a few places to download manuals and parts books for free
here is one
https://partsbooks.britishonly.com/#BSA650Twin
Cheers Derek and Chaz I will look tho that lot might be a great help.
Whine in gearboxes are usually down to worn bearings, particularly the layshaft bushes when the noise is in second and third. It's worth changing these regardless, but also worth waiting until you have stripped it down before purchasing expensive bits like gears.
A10 gearboxes are easy to strip and rebuild. With the help of my mate and Geoff at SRM on the other end of the phone we stripped and rebuilt another mates gearbox on a campsite in Brittany, with limited tools. This box has ran fine ever since!
Chris
Quote from: mo goldie on 30 Sep, 2019, 00:37
and just to say I tried using EP90 oil then was told to use GP50 oil and well both did not make any difference at all so I dont think it`s got anything to do with oil as it is so loud more so in the 3 gear.........anyway your help will be most appreciated and I look forward for your help.... Thanks Mo
Just to add and forgive me if you're already aware.. Be careful of your choice of oil if the box has bushes.. Some Gear Oils have additives that will attack the bushes, but I believe there are bronze bush friendly formulations out there.. HTH
Hi all well the layshaft Bushes will get changed as a matter of course and a close inspection of the gears I will do when I strip it down and check all components for wear, as regard to oils I have gone from EP 90 and now running it with GP50 which is not made any difference at all so its down to wear in the box and as Chris has said about the two bushes on the ends of the layshaft which it runs in along with any other Bushes that might be wearing which I will look at when I do a tear down of the gearbox, so thanks for all your help and I hope to get it sorted out the end of this year.
Cheers Mo
one other thing,,,, lets be technical....
probably yes the roller bearings do generate a whine when running and getting tired and worn. but
due to the gears being straight cut they will whine when meshed and running. if they were helical or helix gears they tend to runn quieter, same applies to hypiod and spiral gears, yes, a few years on a Sykes H160 and V60 gear cutting machine section making gears for train brake compressors and my own projects .
one of the best sounds is the old racing Mini cars like the 1275GT, straight cut gearbox, for quieter running and also synchro meshing the gears are now helical cut. racing mini's dont worry about noise and the older cars used to double-de-clutch which is not required now.
good quality and the correct ammount of oil is best
You may not completely eliminate the whine.
I have owned my A10 for 46 years and it whined in third all tos eyears ago.
A number of early attempts failed to stop it.
Rebuilt in 2014 with new shafts bearings and pinions there was still a whine in third gear.
With a bushed layshaft it is not unusual to find the blind bush and shaft end to be badly worn.
I now use Morris Lubricants non EP gear oil.
https://www.morrislubricantsonline.co.uk/golden-film-ag-90-gear-oil.html
Hi Thanks Julian 46 years wow thats a long time to live with a whining gearbox, the thing being with mine is it is really loud and it turns heads but not for the bike but for the whine lol so think I will have the box out over winter and see what is going on in there so thanks everyone on your help.
Cheers Mo
Hi Chaz one thing I forgot to ask since you seem to be the gearbox man.............have you got any good quality gears and bits laying around for the gear box ?
Hi Mo
have a tray of old classic bits, but not identified as well as other Brit bits but cant think of any twin gears. can look at the weekend.
just one thing , is it a whine or a screach? a screach could be the bearing about to break up or spinning in the housing, a definate wine probably down to gear noise or bush play.
this is the sort of thing you need
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BSA-SPITFIRE-A65-LIGHTNING-TRANSMISSION-GEAR-GEARS-FRONT-SPROCKET-CASE-NUTS-BOLT/232950778010?hash=item363cf2c89a:g:Z9YAAOSwk3RbtJ7X
when I first started mid eighties we had many spares stockists within 20 mile radius, British Iron, Nobby Clarke, L&D, Charlies, Chalky White, Chestermans, Michael Freeman, Chequers and many more, all are gone now. in 50% of them its the children of the original owner not wanting to carry on the business. America (Ebay) seems the best nowadays for used parts. I remember Fluff Brown went to America on holiday , (Fluff owned FB AJS after the factory closed.) he ended up visiting their American stockists and arranged many containers of brand new old stock to be returned. everything from cable ties to complete never raced scramblers.
Hi Chaz is the bsa A65 the same gears as a A10 then as the link was for spitfire and lightning gears as I say this is new to me ? oh the gearbox Whine is a whine not a screeching noise...just a loud whine mostly in 3rd and 2nd.
Cheers Mo
A65 gears not the same as A10.
Quote from: mo goldie on 03 Oct, 2019, 21:50
Hi Chaz is the bsa A65 the same gears as a A10 then as the link was for spitfire and lightning gears as I say this is new to me ? oh the gearbox Whine is a whine not a screeching noise...just a loud whine mostly in 3rd and 2nd.
Cheers Mo
not sure what you mean, the bike is a 1962 A65 or a late 1961 A10 (seperate gearbox). you could check the bushing in the gears as well. one other thing to remember, the engine is a box (or tin) the noise could be travelling around the chambers, an old mechanics trick is to put a screwdriver against various places around the engine and the handle to your ear to localise the noise origin. BUT make sure its not near moving parts!!
trying to answer after working nightshift, must read properly to avoid confusion!!
Hi Chaz, The confusion is you put a link for A65 spitfire etc i took it as if you were saying that they were the same gearboxes as the A10.....as I say this is my first BSA so I did not know if they were or were not the same and as JulianS has said that the A65 box gears are not the same as A10..........so That is were the confusion is, to clear up anything my BSA is an 1962 A10 rocket gold star Rep so hope this is now not give anyone no more confusion lol.
ok thanks.
the confusion came as 1962 was a cross over year late to 1963 A10s and early from 1962 A65s.
I get this many times especially with Japanese bikes, dealers selling old stock off sometimes cheaper a year later than should be for that model year, especially when customers come in with their own sourced parts which I then have to order the correct part. They then get to find that the bike is a year older than they thought.
Hi all I have just picked up a complete gearbox that has been totally overhauled from an old friend that has just gone down hill with Dementia he had done three gearbox's over a year ago and he has just gone down hill over the last 6 months very quickly and he was a really great bloke with BSA`s and a great Gearbox builder as everyone I know took there gearbox to him to rebuild so I am lucky to have one he done,,,,,, cost me about £300 but that means I can take mine out and put his in and do mine when ever i want.......but I wish him well......So thanks John.
Regards Mo
And Thanks everyone for all your advice
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Hi All......well just an update I am going to sell the gearbox that I got as I am now in the process of taken mine out and seeing what is wrong in the gearbox to make it whine I have all winter so no hurry to finish it....... as mine has the Std gearbox but has the reversed Cam so one up three down so that is how I want to keep it, so any help I might need I will come and ask you guy`s as to where to go to get new gears etc....... but I have been told that it will be no good to just replace the layshaft Bushes as that wont cure it as the Bushes will not take up the ware on the layshaft...........so what do you do if not that then ? anyway I have just got new Bushes from D/F so do I use them or take them Back ?........all very frustrated at the moment so will update when the gearbox is taken apart.
Mo
Hi can any one clear up something.........I have stripped the gear box and am now ready to put it back together again......but need to know how to put everything back together right.....as when I took it apart there was things that were not meant to be there as the drawing shows, like on the lay shaft they show a thrust washer Now is this on the timing side of the 1st gear or up against the shoulder before the first gear go`s on............as when I stripped it down the thrust washer was put on the Main shaft and it dont show a thrust washer on the main shaft ..........so can anyone tell me if I should put that from that Main shaft and put it on the Layshaft, and as I say is that before or after the first gear go`s on.......also they show a Layshaft bush circlip in front of the thrust washer and again mine had not even got one of them......a bit confusing to me but there you go anyway would this have been part of the problem of the whine in 2nd and 3rd gears.............as I could not find anything wrong with all bushes they were a good and even the two bearing were not bad but I have replaced them anyway along with both the 2 x 3rd gears and the two 2nd gears as there was only a bit of wear on them I still replaced them just incase ..... but just need help please in putting it back together so any help from you guys would be very helpful.
Cheers Mo
Thust washer goes between the large first gear pinion and the splines on the layshaft. Chamfered side to the splines.
No thrust washer on the mainshaft. There is one which goes between the small ball bearing and kickstart pinion bush.
Thanks Julian
so what about the circlip as mine did not have one on the layshaft and there is no recess for one but it shows one in the Diagram so don't need to worry about that one then ?
If you are looking at the Draganfly diagram and seeing part 87 then ignore it. That is for the needle roller layshaft not the bushed layshaft and is a bit misleading.
See first photo showing it in place at the righthand end of the shaft needle roller shaft. The bushed shaft is not machined to accept one here and not all the needle roller shafts have the machining either. My needle roller box does not have one fitted and I dont really understand what it does.
The other "circlip" is on the left splined end and is essential as it locates the fixed layshaft pinion in
the correct position.
The second photo shows a bushed shaft with locating circlip and fixed pinion in position.
Thanks Julian, Now all is clear so my gearbox was put together wrong as it had the Thrust washer put on the end of the main shaft and not on the layshaft between the 1st gear and the shoulder on the layshaft............I wonder if this Contributed to the whining that I was getting from the 2nd and 3rd gears .........might not sound a lot just being a washer but it might have done being where it is not meant to have one on the mainshaft...and in turn missing one where it is meant to have one .....well I will see when its all back up and running ha.....
Thanks again for all the help.
Cheers Mo