I've rebuilt the front brake on my project C15 with new shoes. However, it turned out that the brake cable was way too long with split nuts added to take up the slack. Maybe it was a rear cable fitted to the front. This bodge was hidden behind a layer of insulation tape, YUCK!
Anyhow, I was lucky enough to get a new old stock front cable, but this is now too short, by a fraction of an inch, to reach the lever on the drum. Maybe this is because the shoes have a bit more meat on them. I think the lever is held on its shaft by square splines, so no adjustment there.
Do I really have to buy more cables, until I get one that fits?
Here is a snap of the lever from my bike. I suspect that it might not be right. Note that the hole at the top is in line with the square hole at the bottom. I found a picture of an original C15 lever on Ebay, where the pin hole was obviously offset, but all the after market ones seem to be like mine. Maybe this is why the previous owner found it necessary to bodge a longer cable to fit.
CHeck out this one: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/186059278801?_trkparms=itmf%3D1%26aid%3D1110006%26rkt%3D10%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26mech%3D1%26algv%3DSimOrganicCassiniWithToraRecallsWithIrrelevanceDemotionV2%26pmt%3D0%26amclksrc%3DITM%26sd%3D186059249887%26sid%3DAQALAAAAEIn93UCqNS5xk4I480TUeiE%3D%26itm%3D186059278801%26noa%3D1%26brand%3DBSA%26asc%3D309643,309867%26ao%3D1%26rk%3D9%26pid%3D101506%26b%3D1%26mehot%3Dnone%26lsid%3D3%26meid%3Dae90a4f20eb844bba278311499c5dc20%26pg%3D4481478&_trksid=p4481478.c101506.m1851
My 2 x C15s have the front brake arm where the 2 holes are in line.
Yours , looks offset a shade.
I wonder if you could turn yours over and bring the cable hole up a shade
Quote from: rhyatt on 02 Jul, 2026, 21:35 My 2 x C15s have the front brake arm where the 2 holes are in line.
Yours , looks offset a shade.
I wonder if you could turn yours over and bring the cable hole up a shade
Just what I was thinking.
The other thing to check is that the cable adjuster is sitting properly in the handlebar lever. Non standard levers can be a pain, my B40 had Bantam levers fitted which made fitting the NOS cable next to impossible.
Okay, so it sounds like the lever is correct. Yes, I had the cable correctly seated at the handlebar end, and the adjust wound to the end stop. Maybe I need to think about looking for stock handlebar levers.
I did think about taking a file to the handlebar lever, but it would be tricky to get the notch right.
Vale-Onslow are selling the correct offset lever on e-bay for £12. Search 42-6317 and look for Vale Onslow. It will be genuine old stock as that is what they are selling off and you can see from the picture that it is offset.
Quote from: Barnsey on 03 Jul, 2026, 06:22 Okay, so it sounds like the lever is correct. Yes, I had the cable correctly seated at the handlebar end, and the adjust wound to the end stop. Maybe I need to think about looking for stock handlebar levers.
I did think about taking a file to the handlebar lever, but it would be tricky to get the notch right.
Easier to treat yourself to a 75W soldering iron and shorten the cable..
I thought the tip was crimped onto the cable!? As an electrical engineer, I wouldn't expect soft solder to adhere to a steel cable.
BTW, I went out in the garage this morning and checked my other C15, and it had the same brake lever and the handlebar lever was the same dimensions. I will note that it has a lot more play. Even without the cable connected the brake is dragging on the project bike. I was hoping that the shoes just need bedding in.
I've found the Vale Onslow lever on Ebay, although I had already put in a bid on an original, but similar lever. The bidding on that ends this afternoon, so I will buy one or the other.
Weird that there are two styles of lever. Which one is actually correct? It sounds like the offset one is, but most bikes have had theirs replaced with straight.
That lever from Vale Onslow is noticeably different to most of the aftermarket levers. Out of curiosity (and to avoid typing a long report...) I did an images search. There is clearly a problem with a lot of levers that could be wrong. The Vale Onslow one is offset at the square and offset to the side.
I agree.
Here is the one I found on Fleabay, which is similarly offset:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/287420561112?_trkparms=ni_actn%3Anav%7Cni_nt%3ABID_ITEM_ENDING_SOON%7Cni_apos%3A1%7Cni_group%3Afalse%7Cni_sg%3A1%7Cni_pos%3A1%7Cni_st%3ANEW%7Cni_wh%3A1%7Cni_nid%3A840204922646%7Cni_nsid%3A287420561112%7Cni_et%3A1783091920000%7Cni_bn%3A1&_trksid=p2380424.m570.l5997
The Vale Onslow lever 42 6317 is for A7/A10/B31/B33 rear brake 1958 and 42 6353 is for A7/A10 rear brake 1960 on.
That e-bay link to 40-5330 is intersting as its flat but offset. Matches the C15 parts book too.
What a mine field!
Well, I won the bidding on that part, so I will see what arrives in the post!
Quote from: Barnsey on 03 Jul, 2026, 11:53 As an electrical engineer, I wouldn't expect soft solder to adhere to a steel cable.
With a suitable flux, it does. Never yet seen a copper Bowden cable....
I have always pulled the inner through by about 3/16" and folded a few strands back on themselves, then pulled it back before soldering.
I like to splay the cable end using a scriber and then a centre-pop, then flux and solder using an iron.
Saves all the issues with non-fitting cables..
Quote from: V500 on 03 Jul, 2026, 18:59 Quote from: Barnsey on 03 Jul, 2026, 11:53 As an electrical engineer, I wouldn't expect soft solder to adhere to a steel cable.
With a suitable flux, it does. Never yet seen a copper Bowden cable....
Agreed. I've been soldering them for years and recently successfully soldered a split seam in my ZB32 mild steel tank. It's all about the flux.
Quote from: Barnsey on 03 Jul, 2026, 06:22 Okay, so it sounds like the lever is correct. Yes, I had the cable correctly seated at the handlebar end, and the adjust wound to the end stop. Maybe I need to think about looking for stock handlebar levers.
I did think about taking a file to the handlebar lever, but it would be tricky to get the notch right.
I recall that my 67 C15 had very basic levers welded to the bars as standard .
During the rebuild following a crash l used " universal" levers and l vaguely recall a glitch similar to yours. I worked at a jewellers so had no problem making and altering cables though.
Kinda makes sense that a cable made to original spec for a specific bike might not work if the fittings for the cable aren't also to original spec.
My money is on a non standard handle bar lever ,not whether the brake arm has a kink or offset hole .
Okay, I have been experimenting with soldering brass cable ends, and it has been a bit hit and miss so far. I am curious as to what solder you use? Electrical or plumbers?
Anyway, the binding of the brake was niggling at me, so I stripped the brake down a second time and took a file to the shoe, removing just a few thou from the hinge end and the end which rests on the cam, and that made a big difference. The wheel now spins freely. The casting quality of the shoes wasn't great and the critical surfaces hadn't been machined.
The screws on the brake lever had been mashed up so I have also taken the opportunity to order a new brake lever.
I have to say that the feel of the brake is horrible to someone who has only ridden bikes with hydraulic brakes. Rather more Raleigh Grifter than motorcycle I think. Ironically my modern mountain bike has hydraulic brakes which are superb.
After updating this thread, I went out to the garage and tried the brakes on my No 2 bike. There is a world of difference. The brake is positive and it is obvious when the slack is taken up and the shoe engages.
It isn't possible to pull the bar back until it hits the handle bar, like the one on the project bike.
So, more work needed I think. Any thoughts appreciated.
Just an update, but I have done a fair bit.
A new brake lever helped a lot, some of the wooly feel was down to the insulation tape the previous owner had bound around the handlebar ( he had a thing for tape!).
The new lever incorporated a screw adjuster, so I had to cut the adjuster off of the cable, using my Dremel, before it would fit. This saved having to cut off the lead ferrule.
I have bought a 100W Draper soldering iron,which does a good job of soldering a brass ferrule, but there is a definite skill to this, and I am on the learning curve.
With the new brake lever on the handlebar, I was able to connect up the other end of the cable to the actuator lever on the brake, no problem. However, I found that I was running out of adjustment on the adjuster, so I put the original straight actuator lever back on and everything came together.
Quote... Okay, I have been experimenting with soldering brass cable ends, and it has been a bit hit and miss so far. I am curious as to what solder you use? Electrical or plumbers?
There are a few different types of solder.. The Plumbers Solder remains malleable over a large heat range, so it can be shaped by a Mole-Skin. It's not really any good for cables. There is also the Politically correct Tin Based Solder, which is also poor for cables.
What is best is the ( Electrical.) 60/40 resin cored solder. The most important part is the Flux core, which should be applied directly to the joint. Don't apply to the Iron then wait several seconds, as it will be burnt off by the time the iron reaches the cable.
Also for the large lever nipples, you need a strong iron, maybe 60 Watts, or even a small blowtorch. The flux conducts the heat from the nipple to the cable so they are both at the same temperature.
Just to add..... There's nothing "politically correct" about tin based solder which has been used for decades if not centuries. The right solder for control cables is 60/40 tin/lead which as said has a sudden transition from liquid to solid. Multicore is fine.
The real important thing to remember is splaying out the cable in the countersink of the nipple. If carefully done this will stop he nipple from ever pulling off.
I have used multicore solder for years never had problems.Just remember to splay the cable to stop it pulling through the nipple, you also need a large wattage soldering iron. I personally never use an iron just a blow lamp.
I use a solder bath.
Quote from: idie on 02 Aug, 2026, 14:13 I personally never use an iron just a blow lamp.
The opposite of me, then. Too easy to literally burn off the flux and overheat the cable strands leading to de-tempering of the inner and oxidation.
I've always used what's in the soldering draw; years ago it was ancient electrical solder and brown flux, now it's plumber's solder on a reel and green flux. Proper cleanliness and splaying the strands is the key rather than the composition of the solder.
I use one of those tiny blowlamps picked up at an autojumble years ago. Just the right amount of heat for me. I also use fluxite paste from a tin I've had for decades although it's getting a bit low now. A thin smear on the cable helps the solder to penetrate.
I got caught out by a choke cable recently, I warmed the nipple with a small blowlamp to slide it along the cable and it turned into a blob and fell on the floor. Turns out some throttle, choke and A/R cable use cast alloy nipples, who knew? I got some 3/16 copper pipe, cut a 3/16 ring off, cross drilled it 1/16 and soldered that on.
Old 15 amp round pin mains plugs were great for making cable nipples. The earth pin was 3/8", perfect for brake and clutch levers. Unfortunately these old plugs are getting thin on the ground.
Some brake / clutvh cables have those moulded on nipples as well, especially ebay specials. I avoid them like the plague and only use venhill components. They're not cheap (and I usually forget something getting hit by postage) but they're excellent quality. No need to chop up plugs.
I recall on my SS80 I fitted a slightly longer brake lever to the brake end in a (possibly misguided?) attempt to improve braking efficiency. No idea where I got it from but it was about 1/2" longer and fitted the standard cable without mods. Maybe someone has done similar here.
NB: We didn't have the Internet in those days to misguide us - we only had 'someone down the club said...' to serve the same purpose.
Andy
Interesting discussion. I dont pretend to know the answers as my bike is still boxes of bits which I am gradually rebuilding but I was looking for a front brake cable last night and realised there seem to be several variables depending on year. my original parts list shows the cable as 40-8519, which bantam spares shows as for 58-60 model, mine is slightly later so asked an AI what the difference was. The response I got (and very happy to be corrected if its wrong) is that early machines used lightweight front forks/yoke which has the cable stop further up the slider so shorter outer. The early maachine apparently also has a slightly different front brake plate with a shorter lever which is more vertical. It said the early cable uses a different, shorter routing to the brake. AI's are often wrong on details but I was led to believe the cable is dependent on which forks you have and brake plate
Just a thought, reading through the thread about soldering nipples on cables, I agree a 60/40 tin/lead solder is good, there is a 63/37 solder which is slightly better I believe but 60/40 is what I have always used but I would not rely on multicore solder as the rosin flux in it does not clean steel. A better product, I feel would be an acidic flux like Bakers fluid which will allow better wetting of the strands. We always had a can of it in the garage from when I was small for making up cables :) :)
Bakers is very good but very aggressive and needs washing well.
Shouldn't need it with a nice clean non-oxydised cable though.
Quote from: V500 on 16 Aug, 2026, 18:36 Bakers is very good but very aggressive and needs washing well.
Shouldn't need it with a nice clean non-oxydised cable though.
I agree it needs washing off thoroughly and doesn't really work on stainless cables but I have found even nice new cables dont always flow properly without a fairly agressive flux, no doubt due to the oils used in drawing the wires or the thin oxide coatings which build up very quickly I guess the answer is to be sure the solder has flowed cleanly up the cable a little, certainly through the nipple. I used to use a toothbrush and soapy water to remove Bakers fluid, then a bit of brake cleaner to blow water off. :)
In response to Shoal48 #32 - I think the AI info on C15 front brake cables is wrong. My understanding (I went around and around this whilst rebuilding my C15) is that the C15 forks never changed. Yes, later bikes (C25s etc) had different forks. What did seem to change is that sometimes the front brake cable was routed over the headlamp nacelle and then back over the mudguard before terminating - and other times it went directly from the lever down the fork leg. There are pictures of both routings in Roy Bacon's BSA Singles Restoration book - although the majority are the latter. The cables stocked by various dealers all seem to be the length required for the 'over and under' routing. I did rig the brake that way and thought it was ridiculous - so ended up making my own short cable.
Hi,
The AI info that come up should never be used. It has been trained by a dodgy used car salesman.
Use this forum or the BSAOC in general for the best info. and advice.
BSAOC Members will see a good editorial in the latest Star.
Dave.
Here is some contemporary, not AI, C15 cable information.
First from the Trader Handbook 1961 issue.
Second from the 1969 issue of the Romac cable catalogue. I think the lengths given are for the inner cable.
Third from the 1969 issue of the Clarks Cables catalogue.
Last a factory parts bulletin from September 1963.