Hi to all,
As a follow up to my previous posts about the gear change issues with my 1964 A65R, I now have the gearbox out of the bike. I managed to get a couple of new parts, namely shifting forks, plunger and spring and a new camplate from Holland.
The dogs on both sliding gears are a bit worn but replacements are hard to get and the only ones I've seen are overseas again and very expensive.
When tried with the new parts with the cassette in the vice I can get the gears but it's not easy.
When I reinstall it in the bike it's very difficult to get any gear especially 1st.
Anyway I've added a photo of the camplate as it's pictured in the workshop manual alongside the old camplate and the new one.
I'm not sure if the old one has been filed or if it's wear in the tracks as the tracks on the new one are much straighter.
I'm reluctant to try modifying the new one as it was really difficult to get hold of.
Any feedback would be gratefully received.
Regards
Clarke
Hi,
The original ones do look like they have been modified but I reckon that is how they were.
If the rollers on your new selectors move freely in the slots when out of the box then they should be fine. Perhaps polishing the slots may help but the rollers are meant to do just that. The edge of the plate can also be polished a bit to help the plunger slide more easily.
When in the bike you are pushing against the plunger spring and some people suggest shortening the spring a bit. Also, gear boxes work better when turning. Not easy to simulate on the bench.
Have you tried it with the gear lever fitted?
Dave.
Hi Dave,
No I haven't tried with the gear lever.
Before I took it out and the clutch was still on it could move ( with the old camplate) a bit sticky in places but I checked the end float on the lay shaft and it was pretty big and I thought that might not help so I bought the next size up thrust washer and I checked it today with a dti and it's about 4 thou so a lot better.
I might give the camplate a going over with some wet and dry to see how that goes and try again.
Thanks again for the advice.
Regards
Clarke
hi have you checked the gear ratios, i know in 63 or thereabouts going forward they changed the gear ratios, have you got a mix of cr parts?
cheers derek
Hi Derek,
Sorry I've only just seen your message.
No I haven't even thought about gear ratios, I've always assumed it was something like the camplate or worn gear dogs.
I followed Dave's advice and buffed up the track ways with some wet and dry. I wrapped it around a needle file and cleaned them up.
The thing that gets me is that I have the cassette made up and in my vice and I can move the camplate freely along the tracks and the different gears will select no problem, but when I fit it back into the bike it's like it's jamming in places.
I have got it mostly going up the gears using the quadrant and gear lever, but coming down is a struggle. I've tried different plungers and springs, different stops etc. no joy.
Anyway I'll continue to try a few more things but there may come a time that I'll just have to realise that it's beyond my capability and give up.
Regards
Clarke.
Hi,
One more thing to try. If you have a spare indent plunger spring try shortening it by a couple of coils. This should make it easier for the selector plate to push it in. There is one available that has a ball bearing in the end that make it easier to move.
Dave.
(A65 Lightning pre-OIF). I've just replaced all the bearings in my gearbox. I started out to fix a jamming kick start and the job rolled on and on. I had to buy some parts from Holland and Germany, all expensive, but what are you going to do? One bearing which is unavailable, and I looked a lot, was the capped needle roller with oil hole.
With the cluster reassembled and held in a vice the gear changing wasn't easy. I added liberal amounts of light grease. I checked and rechecked the cog sequence. Remember the gear changing, when assembled is via the LEVER, i.e. you get quite a lot of leverage. Getting the cluster back in was a sod. You just have to keep fiddling. Stop for a cuppa and try again.
This was the first gearbox I had taken to bits since about 1969 on an old Villiers engine, so all very nerve racking. I haven't tried it out on the road yet, but it seems to change gear OK when running on the centre stand. Good luck.
Hi,
I managed to find all the bearings in the UK when I did mine. I think the one you are referring to was originally a Torrington but I found a Koyo to do the job.
The oil hole may not be that important as the correct oil level reaches the layshaft and once the gear box is spinning plenty of oil will get in to the bearing.
Simply Bearings is a good place to start when looking.
Dave.
I did the same, I put in a koyo needle roller, capped with no oil hole.
I have received conflicting advice about how sensible it is to put a "no oil hole" bearing in that position.
Time will tell.
Have you checked for witness marks inside the case where the camplate etc might be hitting or jamming?
Hi,
If a selector plate with the strengthening strap was fitted it may foul the case. This is definitely so with the '71 cases that used a thicker plate.
As you are using the correct plate it is unlikely to be fouling the case.
The pairs of gears from a CR box should not cause a problem and would only really be noticeable on the road. I doubt that anything near assembly could be achieved if the gears were somehow mixed up.
The problem must be something more subtle as, I assume, the box had been working prior to removal to fit the new shim.
So, on the bench it works but in the bike it does not.
Things that are different between those situations, I would say, lie in the case. In the case is the plunger that acts against the plate and the hole that locates the selector spindle/shaft.
How easy is it to depress the plunger? Try taking it out to see if the plate now moves freely when in the case. If this makes things better then consider shortening the spring.
When in the vice the shaft that hold the selectors is only supported at one end. If there is a very slight bend in this, once in the case it could cause the selectors to bind. Are there any marks on the shaft to indicate any tightness?
This is very much 'straw clutching'.
Dave.
Hi all,
Thanks for all the replies they've been very helpful.
I have the gearbox in and the timing side partially built up and am now onto putting the primary side together. I have the clutch basket, chain and crankshaft cog on, the alternator rotor and stator on and the nut and tab washer on and torqued up.
I'm at the clutch basket and centre now which needs the spacer piece, lock washer and nut secured.
This may be a stupid question but I'm stuck with the washer as it seems too big to fit.
The part number is 42-3191 and has two tabs to secure the nut but also a longer thinner part which stops it going into the hole.
Does this part require bending first or does it fold over as the nut is tightened?
I thought the nut locked itself on the shaft once tightened but the parts drawing shows this washer.
So if anyone could help with this I would be most grateful.
Regards
Clarke
Hi,
There is a hole on the inner part of the centre just above where the thrust washer sits. The long tab on the tab washer goes in to this. It is meant to locate the tab washer so securing the nut when the other tabs are turned up.
I find that as the nut is tightened to the correct torque this thin tab does not hold very well and distorts. As a 'belt and braces' approach I use a bit of thread lock but make sure that you tighten it to the correct torque.
Dave.
Hi Dave,
I did try look ing for a slot or something but I've obviously missed it. I have two washers and I tried folding the long tab and the other tabs slightly to see if they would help but obviously that was the wrong way to do it.
I still have a spare washer so I'll give it another go.
Thanks for coming to my rescue once again. Much appreciated.
Regards
Clarke
Hi,
Once you have located the hole try putting the thin tab in first and then ease the washer in to place.
The other tabs may need to bent a bit but that makes it easier to get small screw driver in to bend them up after the nut has been torqued.
Dave.