Hi to all
Ive been experiencing an issue with my bike for a while now and I'm at a loss what's causing it and how to resolve it. So if you have any suggestions please feel free to let me know.
The problem. When out on a run once warm,when I come to a junction or set of traffic lights and have to stop, sometimes coming down the gears it will miss neutral and go into 1st and once stationary it is not possible to get out of 1st again and I have to keep the clutch disengaged until I can move on. If I let the engine die I can rock the bike back and forth and I can change back into neutral.
I have checked the clutch by pulling in the lever on the run and the engine revs rise and the bike will slow down. Also the bike does not stall if stuck in first at the lights if I have the clutch disengaged.
When on the centre stand and the bike is cold I can select all the gears up and down the gearbox while moving the back wheel. 1st, neutral, 2nd, 3rd and fourth and back down. No problem.
So clutch appears ok, gearbox appears ok, so what's causing the sticking in 1st?
I thought maybe the gear change quadrant was not in the correct slot in the gear change cam, but I took off the inner case when it was in neutral and the plungers were in the right place. I replaced the case and tried each gear, always in the correct slots.
I've added a couple of pictures of the case and the only thing I saw was a bit of wear on the boss where the quadrant comes through and on the other side it looks like at some point the key on the quadrant has been forced into the boss. I've filled this now with two part epoxy.
Anyway long story (my apologies). But it's the last chance saloon because this ruins the enjoyment for me. I don't want to go to the extent of removing the gearbox because it'll mean another summer missed.
Thanks for looking and best regards
Clarke
Hi,
Can you post some close ups of the plungers in the gear change quadrant - you seem to have 3 of them, and the 'windows' on the cam plate that they engage with? It may help to see how worn they are.
Dave.
Hi Dave,
Will do. The reason there are 3 quadrants is The one on the left is the best one, NOS from Germany(180 euros), that's the one I'm using. One of the other two is the one that came with the bike and the splines were wrecked and the last one was the one I bought to replace that from eBay, only slightly better.
I'll take a couple of mor pics of the cam etc.
regards
Clarke
I'd be looking first at a dragging clutch. Won't change with the engine running but will easily with a stationary engine is a dead giveaway.
Agreed. What you describe sounds very much like a clutch problem with drag. Could be something worn, a plate bent or running out of true. If it were my bike I'd be putting my effort into the clutch before digging into the box.
Thanks for the replies regarding the clutch.
This was another area I've spent so much time on. It was in a terrible state when I first got the bike from the dealer.
When I got the bike and eventually got it running, this problem was much worse in fact especially coming down the box. In a previous post a long time ago there was a link to YouTube videos I made showing the problem.
I changed all the drive plates and have tried ordering plain plates from different suppliers including Draganfly and none of them fit again something I've already highlighted ( including with them but no reply). Springs of the same length are also something I've been unable to source. The ones listed on the spares book are far too long.
I tried each of the original plain plates that I have on a sheet of glass and they seem ok. Can't speak for the one that's pressed on.
I have a video somewhere with the engine off and the bike on the centre stand, primary drive cover off in gear and operating the clutch while kicking the bike over and it disengages freely, with the clutch released the engine is turned over without slipping. I use a piece of wire against the pressure plate as a guide when setting up the clutch.
If stationary with the problem I have of still being in gear would the bike not creep forward if the clutch was dragging? It doesn't.Maybe I'm wrong on that.
Anyway I've had the bike for five years now and I spent the first year putting right the issues it came with and this is one I've not been able to resolve in that time and even though the bike runs really well from starting off on a run once hot this comes up and it ruins the whole experience so if I can't fix it then I'll sell it as a project to someone else who has more expertise than me.
Thanks again for the input.
Regards
Clarke
Hi,
If you have the early 4 spring clutch then the tabs on the plain plate are different and they are hard to find. If yours are flat then they are not the problem. Are there any wear grooves/notches on the clutch caused by the plates? Smoothing them out can help as the plates will not snag on them.
I know you have tried different selector springs but perhaps it is worth revisiting the clutch pressure plate. Sometimes it will look like it is lifting square but once in use it may not be. As you have got it lifting square try backing the spring adjusters off a bit until the clutch slips when you try to kick it. Then increase the pressure evenly on each adjuster until it does not slip. If still lifting square do no more than 1 turn on the adjusters and try that.
With the clutch pressure plate fully lifted there should be no resistance and indeed the plates may even 'rattle' as you operate the kick start.
The clutch only has to not slip.
Dave.
Hi Dave,
I have to go back into the clutch anyway to set the timing for the electronic ignition so I'll have another look.
It's the original pressure plate I presume the one with the welded cups. I can't set the springs at the recommended start point as they are compressed to much so they are wound back a bit anyway but I'll give it a go. I have a picture of the different length of springs that are all advertised as the same part number so you can see the difference.
I'll get those pictures I have attached to the next post along with the ones of the cam plate you asked for.
I used to set up my Triumph TR6P 3 spring clutch the same way and it was ok. I had even thought about changing this one to 3 spring but I'm not sure how big a job that is.
Thanks for your help again Dave, much appreciated.
Regards
Clarke
Quote from: Cmcl.1959 on 26 May, 2026, 07:46 If stationary with the problem I have of still being in gear would the bike not creep forward if the clutch was dragging? It doesn't.Maybe I'm wrong on that.
That would be not disengaging sufficiently, which isn't necessarily the same problem.
A plate which is "wobbling" or out of true causes enough drag to give gear selection issues but not enough to attempt to move the bike.
Because this has gone on so long its a possibility that one of the components is wrong or worn in a way that's not obvious. Last year I spent weeks trying to set up a Monobloc, nothing worked. It had been apart many times, then one day I started from scratch and measured everything, it had a Concentric needle.
I'm pretty sure it is the clutch so I'd now be laying all the parts, from the lever on onto a bench, and going though it all checking everything belongs.
Thanks for the suggestions they're very much appreciated.
I will certainly go back to the clutch to see if I can find anything I've missed.
The unfortunate problem is that the correct springs and plain plates are not available and those that are don't fit so not much I can do there unless I maybe change the whole clutch to 3 spring as the parts that I've already bought should fit that. But I'd imagine that means changing a lot of things. Clutch wheel, chain etc?
In the meantime I've added a couple of pictures to show the cam plate etc that Dave asked for and one of the bike.
Thanks again for your help gents.
Best regards
Clarke
When the problem occurs, and it will not go from first to neutral, is it possible to lift the gear change upwards, or is it difficult to move up and something resists attempts to move it up from the mid position?
Hi,
When this happens for example coming to a set of traffic lights and I've changed down from second and it misses neutral and goes presumably into first, when at a standstill it will not shift back up either by using my foot or reaching down and trying to move it by hand. It feels solidly stuck.
I've tried rocking the bike back and forward, no joy.
If I let the engine die, usually after a few seconds I can get it back up to neutral by hand.
But usually if there is traffic behind me I will keep the clutch disengaged. Funnily enough once I start to move off again the bike hesitates a bit and I have to push down on the lever as though it's not fully in gear.
Hope this clarifies the issue.
Regards
Clarke
In the meantime (and to keep riding) make sure you go from second to neutral as you come to a stop.
Yes that's my go-to fix if the clutch is dragging : )
Thanks again for all the suggestions. Take everything on board and let you know if I get this sorted out.
Best regards
Clarke
Hi,
The springs may not be helping. I replaced the springs in 4 spring clutch and had difficulty findiong the right ones. I will see if I can find out where I got them.
Dave.
Hi,
I cannot find any packaging but I have two places I have bought clutch springs from.
Fairspares and Britbikes but make sure they have the right ones.
Do you still have the original springs to measure? The length should be 1 34/64" or 39.29mm.
I was sent some that were 10mm too long and I could just engage adjuster but they almost became coil bound and very heavy. The springs you have may look OK for setting up the clutch but in use may be distorting the pressure plate.
There may be a previous post with this info. in.
Dave.
Hi,
Search this forum for the post below.
"clutch springs
Started by DAVE BRADY, 15 Apr, 2025, 11:21"
Dave.
Quote from: Cmcl.1959 on 26 May, 2026, 19:29 Hi,
When this happens for example coming to a set of traffic lights and I've changed down from second and it misses neutral and goes presumably into first, when at a standstill it will not shift back up either by using my foot or reaching down and trying to move it by hand. It feels solidly stuck.
I've tried rocking the bike back and forward, no joy.
If I let the engine die, usually after a few seconds I can get it back up to neutral by hand.
But usually if there is traffic behind me I will keep the clutch disengaged. Funnily enough once I start to move off again the bike hesitates a bit and I have to push down on the lever as though it's not fully in gear.
Hope this clarifies the issue.
Regards
Clarke
Normally when it's difficult to move the gear change (when stopped with engine running and in gear) then that is usually when the clutch is dragging..... but from the other information supplied, I'm not so sure. Stuck solid on the upstroke as opposed to stiff in action is not the same thing and the fact you can move the bike backwards and it doesn't creep forward suggests the clutch is not dragging much if at all. It's these two pieces of info that makes me thing it is not necessarily clutch drag related. If I have understood the info correctly, I'd be looking elsewhere in the gearchange mechanism area.
Hi again,
Re the springs, I'm assuming that they are the original length. I have the workshop manual which gives me that. I also have a picture I took somewhere that shows the difference in length between them and the ones I got from Draganfly when I also bought the plain plates that don't fit. I pointed out that the tangs on mine were not straight edged but were sloping. No reply.
The picture I posted with the 3 gear change quadrants( in fact I have 4 last one was the NOS)Some I've changed the plungers and springs for new, is part of the story of the multiple things I've bought in the area of the gear change parts including return springs and gear change stops ( got one from Dave once)some that have been filed down so someone must have had similar issues. There is a service information sheet that was issued perhaps only to America dated 2/4/64 service information #6 that highlights issues with gear change problems and possible causes. I'll take a pic an add it late.
I had thought that maybe the condition of one of sliding gear dogs might be causing it to stick.Don't know. That's why after all the gear change part I've tried that it must be gear box related.
Anyway thanks for getting back again.
Clarke
Hi again. Here's the photos of the service sheet I was working to to try and cure the problem. I concentrated mostly on the gear change parts as I thought that more likely and was reluctant to take the gearbox out unless necessary.
There are also photos of the different spring lengths, the shorter ones are the ones that were fitted to the clutch and the other two were from Draganfly and another supplier both far too long and stiff and although the same part number were also of different lengths.
Thanks for looking.
Clarke
Hi,
The shorter ones look about right. If they are the correct length then go with them.
If the bike has done a lot of miles there could be wear on the small rollers on the selector forks and in the slots that they run in on the selector plate. This means a strip down even to have a look.
Dave.
Hi Dave,
Yeah it's looking that taking the gearbox out to check is what's required.
At the end of the day if I just put it back together as it is I've achieved nothing really so I think I'll have to bite the bullet and do that. I've had to do so much to get this far considering how it was when it arrived so pointless not going that bit further.
I can only thank everyone who's replied it's been really helpful.
Best regards
Clarke
I created the identical scenario myself. In an bid to lighten the clutch effort on the handlebar lever I swapped to a clutch lever with a different distance between the pivot bolt and the cable hole. From memory normal was 1" and I went to 7/8". This had the desired effect of reducing the strain on my fingers etc by a noticable amount - but the side effect was that the cable movement was reduced - and when hot, the clutch drags and makes selecting neutral with the engine running impossible. (I have to reach across with my right hand to turn the ignition off.)
I am about to change the handlebars to slighter higher rise, which may or may not involve a load of new cables. When I do this I will swap back to the standard levers - and fit a Venhill featherlight clutch cable.
Hi, thanks for this. I haven't altered the levers since I got the bike but I did re-route the clutch cable after I saw a post on here that showed a picture of the cable running along the engine cases from where the abutment is, beside the coils and round the left side of the engine and up the frame to the lever. This was instead of I suppose the "conventional " route up to the top tube under the tank etc.
I found it certainly looked to be more sensible as it keeps the cable horizontal as it leaves the case.
However the issue was there from day one when I got the bike. In fact it was way worse as the gear change was really bad. I'm not sure if the link is still there on a post I did a few years ago to three videos I did showing this that my friend at work managed to put on YouTube for me where I tried different springs, stops etc. to try and solve this it would have been probably in 2021 when I was just discovering much was wrong with the bike.i think the post was A65 Rocket gear change issue. If it is still there it's worth watching.
I may try re routing the cable to see if that helps but it's a good suggestion so thanks very much for replying.
Regards
Clarke
Definitely be worth measuring the distance shown. I'm fairly certain that the picture shows the original (correct) clutch lever with 1" (or 1 1/16"?) distance between the hole centres.
Hi again,
Just checked and the link to the videos are still there.
Search under A65 gear box issues revisited and it's May 2022 and the three videos each have a link to YouTube.
At that point I was trying different springs and stops and a quadrant I bought to try to solve it but one I think shows how I couldn't find any gear coming down the box.
It is a lot better now apart from the sticking in gear thing.
Regards to all
Clarke
The lever might have been changed at any time back in the bike's history - before you got it. The Golden Rule is trust nothing!
Has your clutch lever got 1 1/16" distance between the centre of the handlebar lever's pivot point to the centre of the cable pull barrel?
Quote from: Tigerfeet on 28 May, 2026, 15:17 The lever might have been changed at any time back in the bike's history - before you got it. The Golden Rule is trust nothing!
Has your clutch lever got 1 1/16" distance between the centre of the handlebar lever's pivot point to the centre of the cable pull barrel?
I have a different version along the same lines. I once bought a new lever, supposedly the correct one. It was rubbish. The problem was that when fitted, it was too close to the handlebars so the pull distance back to the bar was too small. Had it been steel I could have heated it and bent it to shape but it was an aluminium lever as fitted to the OIF range. Most likely it would have snapped.
Hi,
Didn't BSA fit 7/8" centre levers to give a lighter clutch?
Dave.