Hello all,
i ve acquired a neglected 71 OIF A65 and have stripped it down to check the old spine weld repair and change the swing arm bearings.
However my question is whether its a good idea to cut off the oil feed pipe and block this off. Then fit an aftermarket cartridge filter with the oil feed from the base. Has anyone done this mod and out of interest,how did you block off the feed pipe ?
Are you sure the SA bushes need replacing? They last forever and its a pig of a job.
Yes I fitted a cartridge filter to the return oil, there's space to a Norton Commando style filter under the SA. It has to go in the return as this is pumped, the feed is suction and the pump may not prime.
Hi Eddie,
I've just fitted a Norton external filter to my 71 A65FS. It needs connecting to the return oil pipe. Note that the Norton connections are for a 3/8 oil pipe whereas yours will be 5/16. It will fit but is tight, I warmed the pipe first with a hot air gun to soften it slightly. The filter will fit nicely beneath the right hand side panel, you will need to make a bracket and I fixed it via the bolt that fastens the rear fender to the frame.I'll try to post some pics.
Pete
hi Peter and Rob,
i also have a pre OIF a65 with an external filter in the return. But i do think there are advantages in having the filter in the supply side and not so easy to find a place to mount an external filter on the OIFrame.The B50 had a supply paper filter i read, but this conversion is the first i ve heard of it.
Maybe the bushes were not too worn but the bobbins were corroded as hell. i ve added a removeable i/4" bolt in the centre section for greases and oil as pin removal was challenging.
I m well pleased with the project as its not used since 1984 and the engine looks untouched inside. The only bit i dont like is the weld repair to the bottom spine lhs bracket which i will leak test.
The problem with a feed side filter is is gravity fed, on cars the feed side filter is always after the pump so I think it has to go in the return. Its many years since I fitted the filter to my A65 but I'm sure it went low behind the frame spine. I also has a electronic ignition amp to hide.
I had mine form new and the sludge trap blocked at about 20,000 miles and seized the bottom end. I got it rebuilt at Small Heath a few months before it closed. I fitted the filter after that so my advice is strip the bottom end and check the sludge trap so you start with that clean when you fit the filter.
I tuned my engine up quite a bit and used to rev it hard, this lead to a few frame cracks and that's one reason I sold it, there were a number of welds and I was sure there were going to be more cracks in future.
yes to sludge trap and yes to bottom frame spline being too weak.
the frame spine is not the easiest to repair or upgrade.
I make a mount and filter can for the HiFlo 116 filter (used on the H*nda CR450) for the OIF:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50378033612_ae998e9320_z.jpg)
Pipes are made to suit:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/4568/24729325608_50e1c4e246_z.jpg)
This is on a triple OIF:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50387030966_d7d3f4ee8d_z.jpg)
I also made OIF base plates with the filter can integrated:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52738680072_6f5a7b020c_z.jpg)
That's very nice!
+1 on a very nice bit of kit. Makes my u-bolt and bit of angle iron look a bit ordinary...😎
with a cartridge filter used in the OIF return flow pipe can you still use the original 3 way oil / engine connection or would you have to the rocker feed pipe and make a tee off after the filter?
Its a long time ago but I don't recall doing anything other than fitting the two connections to the filter and making a bracket. I left the rocker oil feed alone. It worked fine.
With the 3way junction at the motor and the return line filter it will send more oil to the top end.
hi Dave,
if that is the case . more oil inside the engine. maybe a small oil cooler would be beneficial for those motorway journeys ?
I used to run mine hard and it got its oil very hot on long runs. I ended up only using straight oils, usually straight 50 in summer and 40 in winter. Had I not sold it I would have fitted an oil cooler.
at the end of bsa, they recommended 20/50 for the OIF. Our bikes do run hotter nowadays and i want to throttle this A65 , so will fit a small cooler and see how it goes.
Hi,
I have run oil coolers in the past and ended up not bothering. Assuming all settings are correct the cooling of the engine will be adequate unless caught in very slow or stationary traffic on a hot day.
I always think that if I am not over heating then the bike isn't so ideally a powerful fan for when going slow or stationary. An advantage is that a bit more oil is needed to fill the system.
Liquid cooled bikes have fans on their radiators for such conditions and a small one could be mounted in the same place as an oil cooler would probably go. Manual or temp. triggered switch.
Wouldn't it would great if some ducts could blow air up jacket sleeves at the same time.
Dave.
I fitted an oil pressure gauge on my A65 and found it very informative. With 20-50 the oil pressure got alarmingly low and on one occasion I believe I boiled the oil on a very hot day. I took the filler off and a spurt of foaming oil came out. On straight 50 the pressure was much more stable and held up even when everything got very hot.
what make of straight 50 did you use limeyrob ?
I used Castol Classic GP 50 but that's now £43 a gallon If I needed it now I would probably go for Smith and Allen Classic SAE 50 at £25 / 5L. I now use Smith and Allen 20-50 in my Land Rover and its upped the oil pressure and reduced the oil consumption. Its also easy to get as they sell on e-bay.
Hi,
I have always used 20/50. Scorching weather in Italy and Spain including Alpine passes loaded with camping gear. High mileage and no premature wear.
The important thing is the pressure warning light as this is a 'give away' for worn shells. Even in the hottest conditions the warning light would stay off at tick over indicating enough pressure and flow. Only after well above 120,000 miles did the light start to flicker. Strip down and inspection revealed fatigued rather than totally knackered shells.
Too thick an oil will give good oil pressure but what about flow? A multi grade is better at getting in to the plain bearings when cold and still gives protection when hot.
I think Norton fitted a pressure gauge to a bike as standard but soon removed it due to adverse comments/complaints from riders.
Also, if the oil is too thick is it possible for the centrifugal affect of the crank at higher revs to pull the oil through faster than it can get through the pump?
When I had an oil pressure gauge fitted I noticed that the pressure dropped at higher revs due to centrifugal affect of the spinning crank only to come up again at slower engine speeds.
Dave.
120,000 A65 miles Dave. Can t argue with that.
i might try fitting an oil gauge to begin with then back to the warning light when happy with cruising performance.
20/50 was the OIF manual recommendation but ESSO and Elf brands seem thin on the ground..
Hi Eddie,
For many years I used Duckhams but then because we were doing a lot of miles on two bikes I bought a 200l drum of commercial fleet oil. Now after finishing the second drum I am using Millars Classic Pistoneeze. Not quite a full detergent oil, which I prefer, but it does seem quite good.
I would think that most of the brands do a suitable oil. Some of the 'classic' motorcycle oils are quite expensive but classic car oil seems to be cheaper.
A pressure gauge will confirm start up pressure and that the prv is working. What it will not tell you is if a cold thick oil is getting through the bush and to the bigends as it will offer more resistance and so the pressure will open the prv.
On a regularly used engine it would be less of a problem but an engine that has not been used could well have little oil in the crank for initial start up.
It is interesting that BSA fitted a 7psi warning light to indicate that there was enough pressure at tick over. They must have considered that at about 700rpm this pressure and the resulting flow was enough.
Dave.
BSA oil pressure to the bottom end has been well discussed by more informed people than me on forums.With your milage you must be doing something right and the basic oil system must be adequate. Good point about the oil on start up after a lay up. Can only rely on wet sumping for start up and running a tube and pipe from the breather to the oil tank for the oil to divert from the floor.. which i intend to do.
once left a feed tap closed on a A7 and it was the pistons that starved and nipped up first after 1 mile. The bottom end was fine. Not recommended though.
Hi,
I always turn the engine a few times before kicking to start. The oil light will go off so at least 7psi. If the engine is cold it will stay off for a few seconds until the oil squeezes out through the bush/big ends. If the engine has not been run for a while it is worth doing this a few times so that oil will have reached the big ends. Depending on the position of the crank the sludge trap may have emptied so kicking it a few times will refill it. Also, once started, holding the throttle open a bit rather than straight to tick over will get some oil up the bores.
Dave.