Hello all.
Firstly, let me introduce myself, my name is Tommy and this is my first venture into the B.S.A. world.
I have owned mostly old Japanese bikes until recently but I was never in a position to buy British but all that has changed.
So, I have bought what I believe is mostly a 1968 Lightning frame and engine and a lot of bits which could be from the Lightening era or maybe not.
My plan is to get the bike on its wheels and get it on the bench so I can address the engine, this where I may need some help from the forum.
The main issue I have is I have a set of forks in the frame that look completely different to the Lightening parts manual, this obviously dictates the front wheel which looks nothing like an A65 front wheel, the same issue applies to the rear wheel.
Having read through a number of posts on here I understand there is a lot of knowledge on here and perhaps somebody will be able to recognise the forks and wheels and more importantly to see if they are compatible with the Lightening.
I also understand that there was a lot of mix and match items on the B.S.A.'s during the 60,s, could this be the source the confusion.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers.
Front fork is the same as my lightning 1970. Caps have dots to put on the right leg. Wheels could be correct,are for older type, not sure.
Gr gup
Hi,
Wheels likely from early A65/A50 or even A10/A7. What size are the rims?
If you do not already have them, I would suggest getting a workshop manual and a parts book. They make things so much easier.
Dave.
Thanks for getting back fellas.
Dave, the front rim size is 19" and the rear is 18" if that makes it any clearer.
I have ordered a workshop manual from eBay which should help in deciphering what correct bits I am missing. But I am convinced that the wheels are all wrong, and, from an earlier A65 as the spindle sizes are too big, possibly rocket/gold flash maybe?
Gup, it would be interesting to know what wheels are on your lightening, have you the twin leading shoe type? If so, I may need to remortgage the house!
Also, on my forks there seems to a strange welded lug on the right hand fork do you know what this is for exactly?
Thanks again.
Tommy
Hello tommy, i have the TLS shoe in it, the lug is for the TLS plate , have a 18" front and back wheel. I think it supposed to be 19" in the front. Not sure.
Bought few months ago a complete TLS with hub for 175€, you could be lucky sometimes.
Posted pictures, says something more than words.
Good luck , gup.
Gup, it's likely your wheel came from a unit single. The twins should have a 19" front and 18" rear. If you don't mind me pointing out. Your slider mounted mudguard clamp is fitted wrong way around and should be on the opposite legs ( ie the arrow should be aiming downward not upward)
Thank Gup the images now make perfect sense. I think in my case what has happened is I seem to have a mix and match of frame, forks and wheels.
The frame is 1968, the engine I think is slightly earlier along with the wheels, whilst the forks are slightly later.
I may have to dig deep and purchase a TLS front wheel as I have not seen any 68 forks anywhere, unless there is alternative early Japanese equivalent maybe?
Anyway, thanks again gents.
Hello Alan, knew the front wheel isn't right, the book's said so. Should be 19". My former owner did put a lot of spares together. Even the engine is a bitsa. Have the bike since 1987.
About the mudguard clamp, saw it once on an picture on the net and tried it to turn around, but something doesn't seem to fit then. Shall try it again when the front wheel is out ,to change the TLS brake plate sometime soon.
And Tommy, don't worry I had also such problems. Now it is easier to find info on the net, in my time we had only the books, if you had the right one.
My frame is 1970 and engine is 63.
Good luck , gup
Quote from: Tommyrugrat on 10 Mar, 2024, 16:38
Thank Gup the images now make perfect sense. I think in my case what has happened is I seem to have a mix and match of frame, forks and wheels.
The frame is 1968, the engine I think is slightly earlier along with the wheels, whilst the forks are slightly later.
I may have to dig deep and purchase a TLS front wheel as I have not seen any 68 forks anywhere, unless there is alternative early Japanese equivalent maybe?
Anyway, thanks again gents.
Even with the correct forks, the 68 Lightning would have used the same front wheel (and similar brake) to the 69/70 spec ones. Also look under triumph TR6 and Bonneville as they used the same wheel.
Hi Allan
Thanks for the information.
There are a few TLS units on ebay at the moment, all seem to bit on the pricey side.
Just to clarify the it is the 8"hub and 19" wheel for the Lightening?
Yep, 8" brake and 19" wheel.
You might find a brake plate with the cable coming out at 90 degrees (rearwards) this was correct for 68' but the later type with the cable coming straight down is often deemed as being better since the 68' type was prone to the cable catching under the mudguard and yanking the brake on - if it wasn't strapped up properly.
Hi Allen
There is a 7" hub on eBay at the moment, would it work?
As Gup pointed out previously there is a welded lug to the lower fork, which looks as though it aligns with a groove on the drum face, with the drum diameter being smaller would the two units still slot together?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/156036314957?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=e1Cib11BQFe&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=EMAIL
It would work, but these were used on triumph Daytonas and unit singles. It would be under braked in my opinion. I'd hold out for an 8" type.
The lug is on the same radius on both bikes, so on a 7" it is closer to the outer rim.
Ah I see...I best start saving my pennies.
Thanks again Allan.
The 7" version was used on single carb versions of the 500 twins. The 8" was Daytona, Bonneville and earliest Tridents. Not sure about exact BSA applications.
The 7" brake when set up properly (Ferodo AM3 and heavy duty cable I found best) are excellent and I found as good as the 8".
Some girl legs had a short locating lug and only suit one type of TLS backplate. The one in the above is a long lug which could cope with either 7 or 8".
I agrée current eBay prices seem pretty steep so scouting around might be prudent - but they are very good brakes.
69 and 70 A50s were fitted with 8" TLS.
A7s were fitted with 7" SLS whilst the A10 had 8" SLS
Thanks Neil, that seems like the front wheel is well and truely sorted.
Would any of you be able to provide me with the details of the rear wheel?
Attached is what I currently have, Im still unsure what wheel it is exactly (as previously suggested, possibly A10).
This wheel will not work, I do know that I need an 18" wheel, but the ones online all look pretty much look the same?
Is there any distinguishing features that may point me in the right direction for a late 60's Lightening?
Or any other BSA or Triumph model that used the same rear wheel?
Rear wheel should be of the QD type with brake hub and sprocket bolted together with 10 bolts.
There are two types used on the A65's over the years. They also fitted a version to the unit singles. Both the unit singles and the early A65 had a smaller spindle which goes into the DS side of the axel. The early A65 type also uses a metal back plate, it also has the threaded portion of the main axel on a reduced amount. The later type is not reduced down at all.
Wheels between all QD A65 are interchangeable. (Should have visible domed rivets on the hubs) however, everything which connects to the brake drum does not and is type specific. Including the bearing within the drum.
When you get lucky and find a setup, look at replacing the splined disc which bolts onto the brake drum.
Thanks Neil, correct me if I am wrong, but I may have to find the specific drum with the associated brake items and spindle for the Lightening and use any A65 wheel?
I would be interested to know why I would need to change the splined disc, is it because of wear and tear?
Afraid the other guys will have to advise on those rear wheels (I'm ok on unit Triumphs too after years of thrashing 500 Daytonas).
I only have the GoldStar (53-55) QD type rear wheels/hubs to hand. I think these are very similar to the later single sided A50/65 versions. I know the later hub/splines fit the later type. The 'Ariel' FWH I have only ever seen pics of. My original 55 was all original. I've just built a rear for my CB34 competition frame from bits (A65 or B50 QD hub correct GS drum with correct GS stainless spindle and spacers from Barley Corn Engineering (highly recommended btw).
I'm fortunate to have both spares catalogues and of course an original hub to compare with. Even so I still ended up with an oversized spindle and other bits (wrong sized bearing) that don't fit from other suppliers.
If it is a QD rear hub you are going for I might be able to help with measurements.
Tommy. I similarly began my BSA 'career' with an A65 about 18 months ago. It was originally a 1962 Star but seems to have various later parts added. As the others have suggested download a copy of the Workshop manual from the club. Personally I wouldn't bother with the Haynes manual, next to useless in my opinion. A really useful book though is the excellent "BSA Twin Restoration" by Roy Bacon. ISBN 0-85045-669-X. I found a used copy on the 'net. Worth every penny and full of invaluable info.
Hi All
Thank you so much, you have been a great help, I may have been lucky and sourced the correct front and back wheels, so fingers crossed.
I will certainly look out for the Roy Bacon book, I think at this stage it does seem a bit of a uphill battle trying to source the correct parts for the correct year as I basically bought a mongrel, so any help I can glean from books etc will be beneficial.
Thanks again fellas.