Hi Everyone. Finished re-assembling the RH (timing) side of the A65 project, or so I thought. Having got the kickstart return spring in place, along with the gear change spring etc I tried to turn the engine over on the kick start. Nothing, the lever rotates a few degrees and then comes up against a solid sounding lock. I removed the spring and plate as per the picture in case something there was out of line but it's still the same. The engine turns via the nut on LH end of the crankshaft along with the primary drive/clutch which are fitted. The gearbox selects correctly when turning the back wheel by hand. So I'm guessing the gear box is free and ok? Before disturbing the timing chest does anyone have any idea what I could be looking for or what the problem may be? I hate having to take things to bits to check work I should have already done correctly!! The joys of old motorbikes. Cheers. Rob
not only are you missing the spring plate, but your using a cable routed badly in a situation which should have a brake rod. (or rather two brake rods)
https://draganfly.co.uk/product-category/bsa/sparesparts-for-bsa-a50-a65/1962-63/gearchange-mechanism/
see part 68-3054.
However it is also likely that the quadrant part:68-3049 isn't meshing properly with 68-3095. given that it sounds like the kickstart is jamming. This should be checked before fitting the inner timing cover.
Thanks for the prompt and useful replay. I do have the spring and plate which I'd removed just to try the lever in isolation. I'll be removing the inner timing cover to check the quadrant meshing again. Will let you know what I find. Should there be a spacer or shim/bearing of some sort between the spring plate and the outer cover as it would seem that the steel plate may bear upon and wear the internal face of the outer casing as it operates?
As for the cable routing I guess you're referring to the rear brake which can be seen in the picture. This is just a very loose assembly of the parts to begin to figure out what will need to go where and isn't yet finalised. My other A65 does have a rod operated rear brake but this bike came with a cable and brake plate/hub to suit so I'm trying to refit that. Although on this bike I'm not assuming that what I took apart was correct in the first place so observations and comments from experienced A65 owners are always appreciated! It's definitely a 'bitsa' starting life as a 1962 Star but with many upgrades over its lifetime such as twin carbs, lightning front end incl TLS front brake, full width rear hub plus loads more. As I say, the joys of owning old bikes! Thanks again. Rob
Removing the timing side case to gain access to the kick start mechanism I think Iv've found out why the kick start locks up when trying to turn the motor. Whilst I had the cover off I checked that the engine turned easily and that the valve timing is correct. Referring to the the first picture I think the the quadrant should engage the ratchet cog as shown at the start. However after rotating the engine the spring returns the mechanism to the beginning but the quadrant appears to over travel and disengages from the ratchet. When trying to kick start from here the gear teeth are misaligned and it locks up as in the second photo. I have fitted a new ratchet cog as the old one was worn. I'm thinking that there should be a stop which ensures the teeth do not become disengaged. The end stop pin fitted allows the quadrant to rotate too far on the return stroke. Is there another component that should be here to act as a return stop as I can't see anything in the various manuals or parts list. Cheers. Rob
Hi
If you look at your quadrant you will see the firs tooth is short, as it should be, the purpose of this is for this to nudge the ratchet cog so that subsequent teeth align and do not jam by meeting peak to peak.The two gears should not be meshed when not using the kickstart.
This link explains it better than me
https://www.bsaownersclub.co.uk/bsaoc_forum/index.php?topic=5465.0
Yes that makes sense. I've another two quadrants in my pile of spares and the first short tooth is also too short on both of them. Time for the credit card and a new quadrant! Thanks for the advice. Rob
Quote from: yosemite on 11 Feb, 2024, 01:37
Hi
If you look at your quadrant you will see the firs tooth is short, as it should be, the purpose of this is for this to nudge the ratchet cog so that subsequent teeth align and do not jam by meeting peak to peak.The two gears should not be meshed when not using the kickstart.
This link explains it better than me
https://www.bsaownersclub.co.uk/bsaoc_forum/index.php?topic=5465.0
You beat me to it.
Quote from: Rob Neal on 11 Feb, 2024, 12:28
Yes that makes sense. I've another two quadrants in my pile of spares and the first short tooth is also too short on both of them. Time for the credit card and a new quadrant! Thanks for the advice. Rob
On occasions I have found OIF quadrants be sold as pre oif ones, since some have the early casting number of the pre oif type on there... Its great until you come to fit the cotter pin.
However, before you condemn it to doom, if you have a dremel with a sanding wheel, remove the first tooth completely! Then on the next tooth carefully take the top down, bit by bit, fitting and testing in between until you find the point where the tooth will miss if they are not head on, but will nudge the pinion round to the next place if it is head on. I have done this on 1 occasion, but dressed the first tooth on many NEW and NOS quadrants in the same manor. and providing you feed the kick-start lever in and not just stamp on it like your trying to kill a mouse, that quadrant will last a lifetime and never jam up. The fact one tooth is missing won't be noticeable.
Hello Allan, what is exactly the diverance between those to. From the early start when I've have my BSA , I always thought there is something wrong with the kickstart lever?
Specially when you talk about the cotterpin. Are there more types of quadrant's?
Thats a useful tip Allan. Fortunately I had another root around in the pile of Junk/spares and found yet another quadrant. This one measured 39.21mm (see above reply) and seems to work OK now. I'll hang on to the others I have and when I come to build up my second A65 I'll follow your instructions. I don't see why the designers didn't just extend the plain circumference of the quadrant to provide a positive return stop against the pin already fitted to the crankcase which stops the quadrant on the kickstart stroke. The teeth would then have remained aligned. I'm sure there's some logic to what they did all those years ago! Rob