BSA Owners' Club Workshop Discussions

The BSA Workshop => Twins => Topic started by: DAVE BRADY on 09 Nov, 2023, 14:13

Title: A65 valve springs
Post by: DAVE BRADY on 09 Nov, 2023, 14:13
Hi,

Pre '68 and '68 on valve springs have different lengths determined by a change in the bottom cup design.  What are the differences in the bottom cups?
SRM list the same springs for all years.

Dave.
Title: Re: A65 valve springs
Post by: Allan G on 10 Nov, 2023, 22:31
Whilst all springs can be used for all years. Originally I beleive the wire gauge of the spring changed to one much thicker on the later bikes.

I didn't know the bottom cups were different though.
Title: Re: A65 valve springs
Post by: DAVE BRADY on 12 Nov, 2023, 19:12
Hi,

I didn't but there are two part numbers for the springs and the bottom cups.  Pre '68 springs are longer but I cannot find images of both cups for comparison.

Dave.
Title: Re: A65 valve springs
Post by: EDDIE SIMPSON on 13 Nov, 2023, 17:10
hi dave,
i believe the bottom cups are the same as oif b50  or b25 but the people to ask are autocycle in dudley? who bought old bsa stock.
Title: Re: A65 valve springs
Post by: DAVE BRADY on 13 Nov, 2023, 18:11
Hi Eddie,

I think that the B50/25 are the same as the later ones using the shorter springs.  The earlier ones must be quite different to accommodate the longer earlier springs.

Dave.
Title: Re: A65 valve springs
Post by: DAVE BRADY on 14 Nov, 2023, 10:59
Hi,

An update.  Draganfly appear to show the same bottom cups for both part numbers and the later ones are not even in the '69, '71, '72 parts diagrams.
There is no difference in the diameter of the springs just the length so a shorter stiffer spring could be used but why have different bottom spring cups?

Dave.
Title: Re: A65 valve springs
Post by: Bess on 14 Nov, 2023, 12:29
Hi,
     The later cup, part 68-0931 is 1/16" thinner.

Listed for the B44 B50 1968-1973 & A50 A65 1968-1970   

OD: 1 11/32" ID: 9/16" Thickness: 1/8"

Best wishes...
Title: Re: A65 valve springs
Post by: DAVE BRADY on 14 Nov, 2023, 13:54
Hi Bess,

Thanks for info.  1/16" difference is not a lot when compared to the springs with the outer being 1 3/4" for the later spec. and       2 1/32" for the earlier one. 

Dave.
Title: Re: A65 valve springs
Post by: Bess on 14 Nov, 2023, 15:05
Hi Dave,
   
The outer spring wire diameter increased around 1966, perhaps spring bind was experienced so in 1968, -1/16" off the cups and change in spring length was a workaround.

Best wishes...
Title: Re: A65 valve springs
Post by: ChrisG on 14 Nov, 2023, 16:31
I have had trouble in the past getting some springs to sit in the bottom cups, so it is possible that the two springs also were of slightly different O.D.s
Maybe the bottom cups sold nowadays have a larger ID to cater for this.
Title: Re: A65 valve springs
Post by: DAVE BRADY on 14 Nov, 2023, 16:52
Hi,

The spec. in the manual only refers to different lengths but I suspect that some pattern parts are not quite to spec. and use a heavier gauge wire or don't coil then quite right.  I find that SRM ones fit so have ordered some from them.

Dave.
Title: Re: A65 valve springs
Post by: EDDIE SIMPSON on 14 Nov, 2023, 18:18
i have a set of replacement valve springs [hepolite ]  and the wire diameter is thicker. increasing the  bottom cup diameter would make sense as less chance of coil bound at high speed and spring breakage.
Title: Re: A65 valve springs
Post by: DAVE BRADY on 14 Nov, 2023, 18:31
Hi,

I am not sure if the Hepolite name is the trusted one of years ago but rather a marketing tool.  If Hepolite make bottom spring cups are they made to accommodate their springs and would the extra space be a problem if springs of the correct size were used. Could they move around a bit?
What ever happened to Terry's?

Dave.
Title: Re: A65 valve springs
Post by: Allan G on 15 Nov, 2023, 09:03
The ones SRM used to sell did fit. Red paint for their race springs and green for std. I think they are using hep-o-shite now as they don't fit.
Title: Re: A65 valve springs
Post by: DAVE BRADY on 15 Nov, 2023, 09:25
Hi,

I have just emailed SRM with a direct question re the valve springs they supply and if they fit the standard bottom cups.

Dave. 
Title: Re: A65 valve springs
Post by: EDDIE SIMPSON on 15 Nov, 2023, 17:47
i recently bought some hepolite valve springs. they did fit the cups but the coils diameter is thicker. the problem with that is there is a chance of coil bound at high speed. a clearance check is in order when assembled.
Title: Re: A65 valve springs
Post by: Allan G on 15 Nov, 2023, 19:26
The ones I bought last year don't fit very well at all. Ones I've bought historically have been fine.
Title: Re: A65 valve springs
Post by: DAVE BRADY on 20 Nov, 2023, 12:24
Hi,
My springs have just arrived and they fit nicely in the bottom cups.
The springs lengths are roughly to the pre '68 spec but with 5 coils of approx. 3.75mm wire and 2.75 wire respectively.

Dave.
Title: Re: A65 valve springs
Post by: Allan G on 20 Nov, 2023, 16:34
Quote from: DAVE BRADY on 20 Nov, 2023, 12:24
Hi,
My springs have just arrived and they fit nicely in the bottom cups.
The springs lengths are roughly to the pre '68 spec but with 5 coils of approx. 3.75mm wire and 2.75 wire respectively.

Dave.

do these have the green (or green and white, can't remember which) paint on them Dave?
Title: Re: A65 valve springs
Post by: DAVE BRADY on 20 Nov, 2023, 18:27
Hi Allan,

No paint a tall.  The last set did have green. These new ones are pretty much the same the earlier spec.

Dave.
Title: Re: A65 valve springs
Post by: DAVE BRADY on 25 Nov, 2023, 20:20
Hi,

Having had a reply from SRM, I am re-assured that the springs are of top quality and the same as are used in staff bikes and SRM engine rebuilds.
I will be fitting them after the head has been in the dishwasher for a final clean and when my nasal cavity and sinuses stop over producing virus packed mucus.

Dave.