Hello,
Topic explains a lot.
You can get a lot of info on this forum...of how to?
This will be my how not!
Based on true events and story....my recent purchase of BSA B33...
Fasten yours seat belts...and manage frustration
Let's start with:
Sump Plate...
Why playing around 36 quid (postage and tax for UK buyers)
Make it yourself....including seals and gauze filter.
Just see the picture!
Easy?
I admit the sump plate is homemade, but I believe the gauze is original as they do look as if they were made in a shed!! Just check out BSA part no. 65-2623.
Let's be quite honest, it's only there to stop bits of piston rings from fouling the oil pump. Grains of sand will pass straight through the mesh and the oil pump with no problem.
Isn't that a hi precision expanded reservoir to maintain optimum oil distribution.
NI'm
Looking forwards to more hi tech mods and repairs!
Oil leaks?
Not from primary chain case!
Oil change is for losers....Just be patient and run oil turns to a gelly mixture wit a time .
You won't get any leaks.
Amal carb. float can be expensive.
Fix the float using crock..
Quote from: Dan_B33 on 19 Oct, 2023, 11:45
Oil leaks?
Not from primary chain case!
Oil change is for losers....Just be patient and run oil turns to a gelly mixture wit a time .
You won't get any leaks.
Previous owner might have used a mix of grease and oil to minimise leaks ?
Hi,
Imagine if that groil had found its way on to the clutch plates!!
I suppose it could be that a previous owner had difficulty in getting the right parts or maybe could not afford them. At least now the bike will be getting the attention it needs.
Dave.
All that and more per my understanding is that bike was put together at low costs.
Just to make it running...not much. To get the most out of the asking price whatever it was at the time.
See the copper banjo to provide fuel??
Carb is monoblock Amal 376/83 ....
I have more but have to post in doses...
Here you ca learn how not to:
- check If oil flows to the head
- update fuel tap with Scooter cheap tap
Timing Cover.
Do not bother to fit proper zimering....już hit couple of times side of slot for the part.
How about here?
What do You spot?
Any more slack between the magneto pinion and the idler pinion, they won't be touching at all!
Very good point.
What else....few bits in lower parts as well. Who can spota that?
And I thought my B40 was bad!
Keep up the good work Dan.
There seems to be "spacing" washers under some of the spindle plate bolts, plus one of the bolt heads is smaller and may even be metric.
Metal cut.
Fast fix for a shifter lever
Look here!
You do not have clutch lever...use brake lever!
An do not forget to mess up the threads.
Rog you are right! This bolts have spacers....and what is worst some of them are home made on the machine.
God only knows with what standards but do not fit to the metric templates.
An if You are not able to fit carburettor just cut out the gas tank mounting bracket
Anything wrong here chaps?
Looks like the inlet valve is missing it's valve stem cap.
And the winner is Derek!...better that than shorter pushrod.
Here it is!
Odd thick washers under the nuts, usually the correct sized machine screws and star washers.
Can't tell from pics but the oil feed nuts look chewed?
Hi Neil,
If you ask for oil feed nuts from the timing side they are ok.
I think because seals are not proper someone have put distancing washer so they just reach deeper into the zimerring....
I hope we talk the same thin? Or you talk abou some oil feed nuts fro the valves?
Time to make some hacks with magneto!
Here you have pick-up screw....believe or not, brush inside is home made.
Do not miss tones of silicon and sealed slot between magneto and timing cover!
Well at least it keeps the water out and the oil in ;D
Hello, how about magneto wit pick-up screw on the left side? Is that proper? From serviceability POV this is criminal. When I checked Internet all B33 an B31 but one had it on the right side (close to oil tank not cylinder)
Some professional wiring
Remember to install proper switch!
Leaving aside the choice of wiring colours, 'cos no two official wiring diagrams agree...
I don't think one of those crimp on connectors is made off properly. Both the inner core and the outer insulation should be crimped, not just the inner and certainly not with one of those useless pressed steel "tools" that cost about £6 and never make a sound joint. These red/blue/yellow crimps aren't the best thing to use anyway. The green wire that goes into the switch is frayed and looks like it will break soon. The inner core is visible on a blue crimp near top left, and there's a bit of what looks like VIR (Vulcanised India Rubber) cable going into the switch; VIR cable insulation falls off if it gets wet or hot; not good.
Er... can you tell I was an electrician?
Hi, thanks Rog!
I will rebuild installation from scratch. I have seen diagram in manual. No rocket science there .
I'm telecom engineer....and when I started it was a lot about wires ...not like today wireless.
Stay tuned this is not the end. I will have look what is going on under cylinder head soon
It's a real BSA ... bits stuck anywhere!!
It will be worth it in the end.
I have removed short circuit on tail lamp.
Both tail and head lamp were fitted 12V LED bulbs!
Prepared with grinder! H4 I think...
And clutch Steel plate....home made
Looks like a standard plate to me. A bit worn. I have seen worse
You do not see the welded inside locks
This thread is great value. Is there a popcorn eating emoticon when we get to the engine and gearbox.
Quote from: neil1964 on 10 Nov, 2023, 15:24
This thread is great value. Is there a popcorn eating emoticon when we get to the engine and gearbox.
;D ;D
Hello, be patient! Forth play at the begining.
Here comes head lamp...you are missing lock springs? Use silicone it is you best friend!
Ammeter can be expensive! Mock-up by cracking open and short-circuiting with copper wire!
Vibrations will make pointer run all over the place....same as it is working..
Here it is the glued bottom part
You might have problem with charging in your BSA, right?
Make sure Dyno is rotating with engine rolling, right?
And if Dyno is dead....no rotation of commutator?
Check if all gears are there!!
That is not funny 🤣
Quote from: Dan_B33 on 13 Nov, 2023, 12:42
You might have problem with charging in your BSA, right?
Make sure Dyno is rotating with engine rolling, right?
And if Dyno is dead....no rotation of commutator?
Check if all gears are there!!
That is not funny 🤣
(Swearing)
Yes! I had to watch some Brian Alfonso on YT to make sure life can be good and some BSAs come to the workshop in good condition...
Here comes some more!
Use any bolt to secure primary drive case. Jus do not forget tones of locktight....
Here we have 3 bolts and jus one original....but that's not the one which was holding ...
I had troubles with the Allen screws that secured the cover on the timing chest of my M33; every time I replaced the cover another screw would fail to tighten. The heads of the screws also seemed worn; they were a slack fit on my Allen key.
I eventually realised that what I had was metric screws in 1/4 holes, threaded into years of gasket goo and grime. The cover is now secured with 1/4" Whitworth screws and that same Allen key is now a good fit.
Thanks Rog,
I will take that when I go for fixing .
For now I have discovered next Workaround...
See that...bellow
And more I think that is wrong!
On top some glue in primary case !
Whole thing was spinning only because of Steel lock on the shaft.
I was able to take off whole thing without any extra tools ..and I see there is a play....instead of tight fit...
Hmm
I see no meat left on the clutch hub oil flinger (I guess that is why the Teflon ding is glued on!
Is there any thread left on that mainshaft?
On my current build (BB32GS scrambler) I had to cut the worn steel ring off the back of an old (but serviceable) hub and shrink on a new aluminium one off a new hub that had cracked at the keyway.
I could not source a new 6-spring hub from any of the usual sources in the U.K.
I guess your box is the plunger type so my spare mss as in shaft (s/a box would be no use?)
Hi Neil,
Mainshaft thread is ok. Not sure if it is still imperial or have been turned to metric...?? Need to check that ( have you seen state of that nut with coral? Might be it had some metric nut welded in). ...looks I need to start hunting for something more. Than friction plates when it comes to clutch....
I bought my B33 from an old time Harley chopper guy in Kansas City. He had assembled it from a classic basket case situation. He had it pretty intact, but got to the magneto and decided to sell it. Normally I pull stuff like that back apart, but it all looked good- I went through the magneto and got the bike running.
After a lot of careful adjustment, I got the clutch to drag and slip at the same time. Rode the bike around some before investigating the clutch more. Enough to know I liked it, and the clutch wasn't toooo bad.
When I tore it down, discovered that clutch basket bearing pictured above was not there. There was no bearing at all, I guess centrifical force at play I suppose. I could have ridden her into town like that.
Awesome Leon!
I'll keep discovering! I believe mu motorcycle is a basket case as well ...wits someone focused to get it start....Ans sell
But Dan at least you are providing lots of us with entertainment!
I've had to put an pause on discovering... potentially I have small win buying job lot pile of clutch baskets and bits some 6 spring some 4 for BSAs. I hope to reuse some parts ...keep your fingers crossed. That is jus "potential win". One big lose is that from big list of parts I provided my friend (who were I India for 1month) I got none. He has been erased from the list of friends ....and I go to other side of the road if I see him.....unforgivable!
Wotcha.
Oh the joys of owning a B33 :D
https://www.lonewolf.me.uk/LWMEB33.htm
Wolf! I will read with pleasure. Thanks.
Winter started here I will transfer my BSA to some warm place and continue....
Wolf!
You have light hand for writing! Thanks for documenting.
Ok I will have fresh spirit now. You did great job...that motivates me to become another "happy looser" putting fortune in order to have my BSA B33 running....
Hello,
I wish I kept that bike under snow
....close to nervous breakdown
...piston and barrel are kind of a joke
Any idea what author meant by cutting out barrel sleeve
...and big end...
Quote from: Dan_B33 on 06 Dec, 2023, 18:32
Any idea what author meant by cutting out barrel sleeve
Do you mean the missing bits of the bottom edge of the sleeve/liner, front and back? I don't know the cause, but my M33's barrel is like that. The bike still runs okay.
Yes Rog,
Thanks for shearing...I started to think it I some hack by previous owner....need to check if I have room for any oversized piston...
Looks like a short rod piston (ie later model).
Obviously the bore will need a clean up of some sort due to piston nipping up.
I can't see if any deep grooves or if the top of the bore has a ridge above the top ring line.
If lucky might get away with hone and new piston and rings but I'd be surprised.
Those 'cut outs' on the bottom of the barrel are usually symmetrical fore and aft to clear the rod.
As long as they are relieved and blended without cracks/stress points and there is enough meat on the liner you might be ok.
Pistons for that version (short rod) are around (more so than long rod/early GS type). I would always go 7.5:1 in one of these.
I'm more worried about the marks on the flywheels as harbingers of more badness in the crankcase!
Thanks Neil,
I have checked barrel and looks like the scratches are not that deep. Still do not know if there is a room to make any oversize here ? +0.06inch?
Indeed what is inside crank case ....I have no idea. Changing sump plate I have not seen any bits....and crank spins ok no play up or down....
...barrel bottom reading is as on the picture below need to switch
I inches with that measurement
Ok some more news.
I've had a look at the cylinder head. So looks like home made valves here....but not machined no drill an grinder I guess
....and head
Quote from: Dan_B33 on 07 Dec, 2023, 12:43
...barrel bottom reading is as on the picture below need to switch
I inches with that measurement
STD bore is 85mm + a small clearance, maybe 0.1 to 0.15mm. Your measurement of the piston and the bore reading of 86.4mm shows possible a 1mm overbore (+40 thou). There should be room for boring out to the max +60 (1.5mm)
Hepolite 11744/060 would be choice if the bore will clean up with light hone (afraid a machine shop will be needed to see). I get you to 55thou over? 1.4/25.4 allowing for caliper vs micrometer!
New valves and guides are available from Alpha bearings.
Can't tell from your pics if seats are pocketed.
Thanks Neil for advise,
For sure when I have piston that will go together with barrel to the machine shop for reboring.
I will make closer picture of a head too show valve seats....I guess one bellow is not that good?
I was thinking of taking one order.....in one place there will be tones of parts i need....around 800-1000quid
Any recommendations for that? Faked?....any good?. I took sump plate ....came good price and decent quality...
Piston crown measured in mm . I think it is Gandini...just thinking if that brand was bad or the fact that piston rings were worn out....more than 1mm slot (clearance) when put to the barrel?
Any thoughts?
The crown says 86mm so I’m guessing 40 thou over at the moment.
Funnily enough I had a Gandini nip up such that I managed to clean it up and had the bore opened up a couple of thou and had no further issues.
Ideally you need the bore measured fore and aft vs side to side.
Using an old ring does not tell you much, you can compare the gap where you are measuring in the pic and similarly at the bottom of the bore (where the rings do not run).
Is there much of a wear ridge on the top of the bore once you have cleaned the carbon ridge off?
10 thou is correct gap for top ring
I tend to try to get as much stuff NOS BSA if I can, which means scouting around a bit. Places like Autocycle and Vale-Onslow have mainly NOS where as Classicbike/Feked and, more frequently now, Draganfly have pattern stuff of variable quality. Some UK made but more from Taiwan and India which can be well made but frequently from inferior spec materials. Definitely Caveat emptor.
Hi Neil,
Thanks for advise about the shops.
I can see hardly any ridge there.
Pictures bellow. Stilk I need to measure whole barrel as you advised and judge....Looks like I need to hunt for decent Hepolite +0.060" to rebore....Dou you think there is still hope for +.040 and hone plus new piston set?
If no wear ridge you might get away with 040 piston/rings and hone
I'd always try to preserve any bore thickness if you can but piston availability and what your engineer with correct metrics tells you
Thanks for the tip!
I have seen some +0.040 pistons on eBay ...old stock.
I need to measure barrel from top to the bottom and get the judgement from machine shop guys...
Now I'm taking engine out to see what is with that big end?
The dent looks old on teh fly wheel....more like old workshop damage than something from the run. Anyway whole crankshaft will go to one specialist here in Poland ...
Good news not much of a metal pieces on magnetic sump plug.
I have fitted sump plate with that magnetic plug when BSA was still running....I think it had in total 1hour idling on tghat
Some news!
Oil pump can be expensive? Make refurbishment with soft metal....comes cheap . I guess that is far from seeing original?
Remember MagDyno surprise?
There is more in that area....missing seals....some home made bolts and .....more
See that!
...thank God it's offline Sunday....work on BSA forbidden....otherwise I would send her a bullet...
Stay calm ....have good one
....last one with question.
This marks on timing pinions are there for reason, right?
So the timing was a bit off? Or the set is not from this engine? What in..hell?
How to check if right timing set was installed?
First you need to determine what cams you have.
Remove the cam and you should see a stamped number on the back.
Same for oil pump. Common fault is overtightened screws (distort body or strip out)
Keep going (and no ammunition left lying around!)
Here there are cams . One is stamped but the exhaust one has no marks ...
What I have noticed that pushrods are not even length.
Looks like one have been "fixed"!
From good news engine case numbers are matching....what a suprise!
Oil pump spindle...is in a bad shape. However oil pump is making nice job itself....
Magdyno seal port. Is that regular size? I have seen them smaller on videos...
Quote from: Dan_B33 on 12 Dec, 2023, 12:10
Magdyno seal port. Is that regular size? I have seen them smaller on videos...
The magdyno oil seal area was somehow worn larger and oval on my B31 too. I managed to sort it by fitting a seal with a larger outer dimension and generous use of silicone sealant. The trick is then to make sure the magdyno pinion meshes naturally with the idler pinion whilst at the same time is central to the new oil seal.
Pete
Quote from: Dan_B33 on 12 Dec, 2023, 12:10
Magdyno seal port. Is that regular size? I have seen them smaller on videos...
Wotcha.
That looks like it should have a distributor fitted, rather than a mag / dyno. I had to enlarge the hole on my B33 before fitting the distributor.
(https://www.moonshiners.org.uk/LWMEimages/B33011.jpg)
Not sure yet what is distributor. Looks like You are right!
Especially with when you see the picture bellow.
What is detailed name for the distributor? Type model make? I bet they were not fitted in Plunger frames,right?
Picture of the other side of timing case
I can't see what year your B33 is.
Alternator models didn't have fully machined mag platform, opened out timing case (like yours) and fatter alternator chaincase.
If you want to fit a magdyno then you would need to machine up a shallow top hat plate seal holder.
A version that works in the same way that the rear seal behind the clutch will work well. So you can set the backlash of the timing gear (shim/skim the platform) then fit the seal plate to the case with gasket and goo (slotted holes) then tighten the screws with nuts and star washers?
Hi Neil,,
Thanks for advise. Good hint to adopt solution from the clutch side. Engine case number was butchered and re-stamped. Date stamps on the timing side indicate 1958. I have not seen distributors after googling it...
Quote from: Dan_B33 on 11 Dec, 2023, 14:51
Here there are cams . One is stamped but the exhaust one has no marks ...
Look like standard B33/B31/M20/M33 cams. They often have"A2" marked on them or no marking at all.
Ufff for the cams! Thanks!
How abou Magneto? Is that Lucas k1f? Or what is that distributor?
I will most likely adopt to my Lucas M01 (gives fat spark even slow rotation by hand).
Would be nice to have idea what was goin with that engine ...
Quote from: Dan_B33 on 13 Dec, 2023, 11:26
Hi Neil,,
Thanks for advise. Good hint to adopt solution from the clutch side. Engine case number was butchered and re-stamped. Date stamps on the timing side indicate 1958. I have not seen distributors after googling it...
Wotcha.
I can't find anything on Google either. The part number for the distributor is 42-119 . . . but that doesn't throw anything up on Google either.
I've just been out and taken a photograph of the distributor on my 1959 alternator B31 . . . so your engine number indicating 1958 could well be an alternator model.
(https://i.ibb.co/mtDTzbM/DSCF6103.jpg)
Looks like my engine was taken from that kind of a version ...
Anyway I will stay with MagDyno. Just need to buy missing bits : plate star and fibre pinion (gear).
Big end will go to the machine shop.
I guess that plate makes oil splash, right?
Looks like the big end has received attention already as that screw is new. Yes the oil flinger is correct on the mainshaft.
Is there play or roughness in the big end?
What were the mains like?
Hello, overall big end in a good shape no play nowhere. One thing to correct is small end bush I think there layed main problem and oil was not reaching the inside....might have caused issue . Bearings by Hoffman and one some Japanese . Looking for replacement locally I might get the bigger one which is like N305....problematic might be the one with braz basket....might get it from UK
And pic of Japanese....open just from one side....smart wet sum oil won't flow to the primary case....I guess?
Quote from: Dan_B33 on 15 Dec, 2023, 13:41
And pic of Japanese....open just from one side....smart wet sum oil won't flow to the primary case....I guess?
That is actually quite a good idea.
I do the same with the gearbox high gear bearing, leave one seal in and use a modern oil seal and SRM nut for the sprocket to try to keep oil in the correct place.
....oil tank turned out to be reservoir for grinded metal....
Clean now...
I've put a Norton Commando oil filter in the return line of my ABSAF 600 (it fits inside the toolbox of a swinging arm bike)
Happy 2014 to you ALL!
I have seen some tricks already in internet on how to install oil filter.
Some progress update:
Barrel and piston are ready (back to the STD size with new tube fitted)!
Cylinder head under construction by some old chap (former Speedway competitor)
Same person will look after big end.
Waiting for parts to make gearbox refurbishment....
Same for front forks!
Telling king story short ...almost nothing is done and nothing works but my spirit is high!
Dan
And forgotten to ask: any ideas, hints how to remove central stand?
Quote from: Dan_B33 on 05 Jan, 2024, 16:06
And forgotten to ask: any ideas, hints how to remove central stand?
It is a single stud with internal tube lining the stand. Simply undo the nuts and drive the spindle out. No need to undo the spring until spindle out.
Hello Neil,
Thanks for explanation.
I have impression that spindle is bent.
I have tried some force but no too much....and it goes nowhere.
I guess I need to re-fit gearbox to get all that bit of frame more stif...what do you think?
Typically releasing fluid, then time, then more fluid, heat, hammer, for fluid, more heat, bigger hammer etc.
I'm sure you have been doing these things already. The S/A models have a central bolt that fits inside a spacer tube which has a groove that helps distribute the grease from the grease nipple. I've not worked on a plunger/rigid model so there may be more tips and tricks.
Try to preserver the stand tho' as they can be expensive for genuine items. The spindle/stud and spacer are likely to be sacrificed unfortunately.
Attached is a screen shot from the parts list showing the centre stand (69). It mounts between the engine plates on an internal distance piece (71) with a stud (72) through it and a nut and washer at each end.
Once the stud is knocked out you should be able to withdraw it down between the plates. It is likely that the stud is seized into the internal sleeve/distance piece.
Use a copper hammer. A normal one will just bounce and not transfer much force through the spindle
Thank You!
Withe the graph and advise I will manage....will post picture when I have it out.
Morgo and thunder engineering both make small well engineered remote filters.
Quote from: cdsdorset on 10 Jan, 2024, 09:09
Morgo and thunder engineering both make small well engineered remote filters.
I've had a look at both of those and they look neat.
I guess main issue will be use of an easily acquired filter can or element. The commando ones can be got from anywhere like Halfords.
Still no joy with central stand. Spindle is likely bent....I mnight be forced to gently cut it out.
If you are going to cut it out I'd suggest using a multi tool with a carbide blade suitable for metal cutting. You could cut through the spindle at either end of the centre stand which will allow it to come out. Hopefully the inner sleeve with the remaining spindle inside it would then knock out. I used the method with a multi tool very successfully to remove the rear shock from a Ducati Multistrada 1200 which had the lower bolts seized into the swinging arm.
Quote from: Dan_B33 on 18 Jan, 2024, 12:41
Still no joy with central stand. Spindle is likely bent....I mnight be forced to gently cut it out.
Not all filters are the same
Some have valves in them and they dont always release at the correct pressure , many are made to run at car engine pressure which is higher.ý
Not sure how that happened :D
Hello, back to the garage!
Looks like I need machine the central stand and prepare new bush and spindle.
I have used favourite tool of Alan's (Milyard) - hand saw.
In addition I guess this stand was fixed or it got twisted a bit.
I will have to weld a bit of metal to one of the legs in order to get the level staright.
Otherwise right side of motorcycle will be lowered...
Interesting developments.
I took the plunge and bought a new centrestand for my current project (s/a scrambler/competition) as I had struggled to find a good original.
The bore of the new (Indian made) stand is much too loose for just the bolt and far too small for the intermediate tube. It will need reaming/boring out to 5/8" (0.625") to s as low the correct tube.
The eBay seller acknowledged and said to get fixed and
they would reimburse 🤞
How is your engine work going?
Wow!
Looks like traps are everywhere! Good luck with that stand Neil!
cylinder is ready with new piston and piston rings.
Cylinder head and crankshaft will be ready in 5 days .
Casing is clear and ready to take new bearings...and the rest.
Parts ordered in waiting for arrival from India(job lot waiting in UK as wel for final shipment)
I take it easy....trying no to make me wife jealous...
One more good news is that original SMITHS speedo is complete and works fine....don't care that much about calibration. Just knob of trip counter restart missing but seen that on eBay.
Monoblock Carburador ready to be fitted
My 17yo son made for me knob for Speedo Trip reset .
I guess this Speedo is not from B33, right?
Could be B33.
The ones for B31s are 80mph type.
What year is your bike? Would it originally have the cowl for speedo/ammeter and light switch or ears on the fork tops for separate headlamp?
The speedo in your pic is the cowl type (you can tell by the lip on the chrome bezel).
Hi,
It could be a cowl fitting one that has had the bezel changed. I think that the cowl mounted ones had the trip reset knob on an extended rod so that it could be reset from behind the bottom yoke.
Dave.
Quote from: DAVE BRADY on 13 Feb, 2024, 20:36
Hi,
It could be a cowl fitting one that has had the bezel changed. I think that the cowl mounted ones had the trip reset knob on an extended rod so that it could be reset from behind the bottom yoke.
Dave.
I have a cowl mounted speedo and yes it has an extended rod, actually more like a very short speedo cable with a knob on the end. But it attaches to the rear face of the speedo, not pointing towards the rear of the machine as shown in Dan's photo.
Quote from: Dan_B33 on 13 Feb, 2024, 18:46
My 17yo son made for me knob for Speedo Trip reset .
I guess this Speedo is not from B33, right?
From what I can make out of the number on the bezel - S467/?? I reckon the speedo possibly came from an Ariel Huntmaster.
Hi All, thanks for valuable inout.
Attached additional picture....looks like Derek is right about the number.
Anyways Speedo works it will stay as is. Might search fro missing small screw
Ps off topic but have you seen this months classic bike guide with Dereks B32 competition article?
I beg you pardon for my ignorance but is that available anywhere on-line?
Quote from: Dan_B33 on 14 Feb, 2024, 21:18
I beg you pardon for my ignorance but is that available anywhere on-line?
The article isn't but you can buy a digital copy of the magazine or maybe an actual copy here:
https://classicmagazines.co.uk/issue/View/issue/CBG202401/january-2024 (https://classicmagazines.co.uk/issue/View/issue/CBG202401/january-2024)
I presume that's the right one; the January issue.
There are few glaring mistakes in it - not mine! How the hell can you lengthen valve stems? ::)
It's been stripped down again this winter and being put back together with a genuine ZB32 9:1 piston so no need for the compression plate, the inlet valve guide has been sleeved and a pair of Clubman's cams go in but I'm waiting on a set of ZB32GS valve springs that I've sourced to go with them.
Sounds awesome! I will go for digital version to read an article!
Keep on rolling Derek.
To cheer up my longing for a ride I have taken my wife's CB 250 (1973) for a spin today
Hi, anyone used this clutch plates:
AEspares Zestaw cierny sprzęgła 5 sztuk BSA C10 C11 B31 B32 B33 A7 A10 M21 M33 https://amzn.eu/d/4Km3rQH
AESpares
No, they look ok and AE generally make/sell on good stuff (I worked for them many, many years ago) these are made in India which might be an unknown quantity.
I use genuine Surflex plates with my Gold Star 6 -spring clutch and this far have been very pleased with no drag/no slip, but I have been 'running in' as it is a new ABSAF 600 motor. I've got old style cork plates for my B34 off-roader but not finished the build yet.
Would be interested to hear if the AE ones are any good as they come out at just over £50 a set plus postage.
Yep, is here to think twice since price difference on suflex and nonsuflex I almost 100%.
Hello, I have came up with that idea to solve the problem of adopting distributor ready case to magneto.
My son made me kind of a steel plate. See the picture.
Now I have to level the platform on which rests the magneto. It is not smoothly leveled and has no grooves.
There is a thread on Britbike Gold Star forum that discusses mag platforms in detail. I was fortunate as my ABSAF is new and my BB32.GS bottom end had the platform welded and recut by Phil Pearson when he did its rebuild for me.
Hope this helps, if you don't want to read whole thread it is around pages 38-40. (http://38-40.)
(https://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/download/Number/23265/filename/MagnetoPlatform05.jpg)
(https://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/download/Number/23280/filename/MagnetoPlatform16.jpg)
(https://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/download/Number/23288/filename/MagnetoPlatform13.jpg)
(https://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/download/Number/23309/filename/MagnetoPlatform27.jpg)
Thanks Neil,
Link is not working for me but the drawings will come handy.
Curious on how to take/throw the center/symmetry line of a Magneto into the stand?
Is that 90 degrees for the symmetry of a timing hole to to the platform? Shall be easy then.
One question about main bearing..tis MRJA 7/8 I have to source from UK. For teh other two we have them in Poland. Not sure if N305 shall be with C3 tolerance or not ?
Cheers
I have noticed a free play on the mainshaft in the Gearbox .
How to fix that problem? New mainshaft? Or just a bearing or bush on the other side?
Looks like play in the output shaft sleeve bush. Item 108 in the attached drawing, part no. 15-4120. It fits inside the sleeve gear, item 107. Your gearbox is basically the same as the M20 gearbox and I'd think the M20 parts would fit although the part no. is different. Failing that, any good engineering workshop shut be able to replace the sleeve for you.
Many thanks Derek! Owe you pint! I will have look to source that part in UK....
Typically for main bearings I would not go C3 as you will likely get rumble from the off.
Pretty sure std type is spec
Sleeve gear bush available from Draganfly for £9.95 + VAT https://draganfly.co.uk/shop/73944/sleeve-gear-bush/#66-3155 (https://draganfly.co.uk/shop/73944/sleeve-gear-bush/#66-3155)
Quote from: Dan_B33 on 23 Feb, 2024, 10:00
Many thanks Derek! Owe you pint! I will have look to source that part in UK....
Make that 2 two :D
Many thanks,
Please keep it in the books. Two pints for Derek!
Anyone off you have experience with backorders from Dragonfly?
How long it takes for them to get the part? They say something abou 2 months? I do not understand how it works.
Hi,
Try C&D Autos. You will have to email with your question or telephone as they do not have an online shop. Give the model and part number.
canddautos@gmx.co.uk
01564 795000
Dave.
I gave up on Dragonfly. Everything appeared to be on back order, then never arrived.
Hello, thanks Dave and indie! I will check for the push rods elsewhere
Quote from: Dan_B33 on 29 Feb, 2024, 07:51
Anyone off you have experience with backorders from Dragonfly?
How long it takes for them to get the part? They say something abou 2 months? I do not understand how it works.
That's a pity. When they have the part in stock they are pretty good.
I agree, if Draganfly have it in stock they are pretty good, although a lot of patten parts are in their inventory and of variable quality, they are always polite and helpful. If it is on back order I would give up and buy elsewhere as I have some things on back order for months, if not years!
I used C&D for lots of things when they were in their original shop when I did the first B31 resto mid 80s, but not used since they moved (yes I know that was years ago).
Vale Onslow currently seem to have a lot of NOS stock being listed on E-bay, a bit at a time, and I have been delighted with the stuff I have bought being original BSA parts, but they come out in dribs and drabs so I don't think you can order stuff in the usual way any more..
Thanks, I have questioned C&D no replay so far.
I have all parts waiting in Preston at my brother's jus need to fin that pushrod....
Anyone ? I searched Internet and there are some in Australia or US...some second hand at eBay...-nit sure if this second hand are good option since cost more than new ones?
Anyone has spare- good condition pushrod for B31/33 I'm glad to arrange purchase via my brother..
Cheers
Dan
Ian confirmed he is sold out with pushrods for Models.
Still searching since one of my old ones gave been cut to fit some crazy valve set-up....
Mikes in Aus have them at 26 euros plus postage.
I used them when the only place I could find the correct Cush drive bearing for a 2-lobe shock absorber (65-2539) no where in U.K. had them
Postage was v reasonable and swift (price on website is Aus dollar. Lot lower value than US dollar.
Hi, thanks for that tip!
I have decided to take one of the UK eBay...second hand. I hope it is straight...
Quote from: Derek996 on 23 Feb, 2024, 12:05
Sleeve gear bush available from Draganfly for £9.95 + VAT https://draganfly.co.uk/shop/73944/sleeve-gear-bush/#66-3155 (https://draganfly.co.uk/shop/73944/sleeve-gear-bush/#66-3155)
Quote from: Dan_B33 link=topic=17585.msg99351#msg99351
date=1708682420
Many thanks Derek! Owe you pint! I will have look to source that part in UK....
Make that 2 two :D
Shall I buy this part x2?
Pesltd.uk states required qty. 2
Just realize someone welded enforcement plate into clutch case. That is adding extra 3mm. No wonder clutch case was moving at the end part with lever operation. Need to remove at least 2mm of it or more?
This is another how not to B33 advice!
...is that gap standard?
See the picture below..
I've got mine off just now, I'll have a look. Yours looks like the boss that attaches to the engine isn't centred.
Firstly Dan, could you please re-size your pics to be around 300KB to make them easier to see when expanded? As you have stated previously, you have a modified inner primary chaincase, so are you altering it back to standard? Regarding the case around the crankcase boss, it should be more central but also the position for this is really determined by the footrest which goes through this case as you are aware and the holes should be slightly slotted as on mine from my M33. HTH
Quote from: Ian C on 09 Mar, 2024, 12:15
Firstly Dan, could you please re-size your pics to be around 300KB to make them easier to see when expanded? HTH
Dan, it's not the file size that's the problem, it's how many pixels wide and high the photo is. So if you can reduce them to about 1,000 pixels wide they'll better fit on most phones and just about every computer screen.
Hello,
Many thanks Rog and Ian.. I will take advice to shape my pictures as you described!
Thank for photo. I have worked a bit with the casing today. Some welding on the inside and grinding on the outside coral.
Some work still to be done but for sure it will be better than I received it .
I will post some pictures with final results later
Big end and cylinder head just arrived.
I have not improved on cutting my pictures yet.... sorry
Head.... combustion side. Valves are new as well as the guides...
Pic size is getting better Dan!! A bit of advice if you don't already know.. Get some grinding paste and put a thin smear on the top of the barrel lip, then place the head onto the barrel in the correct postion it would be when engine assembled. Now gently spin the head one way then the other to make the joint between the head and barrel as good as possible. This may take some time, but doing this (as there was no official gasket from BSA for the Iron engines) will help with sealing. Obviously clean all the grinding paste away afterwards. HTH
Thanks Ian,
I have seen Brian Alfonso doing that in one of his videos on YT.
I was surprised 😯. Kind of a lapping, right?
Quote from: Dan_B33 on 14 Mar, 2024, 11:39
Thanks Ian,
I have seen Brian Alfonso doing that in one of his videos on YT.
I was surprised 😯. Kind of a lapping, right?
I've done this lapping in on my M33. It takes a while but I know it's done now.
Also, your last photo was at a much easier to view size.
Will do that as well.
Question: thread to undo drive sprocket is clockwise or anticlockwise? ( The one with gearbox)...Hints to undo while Gearbox is already out of frame?
It is normal thread, anti-clock to loosen.
Quote from: Dan_B33 on 14 Mar, 2024, 19:02
Hints to undo while Gearbox is already out of frame?
I've never had my gearbox out* so I'm not sure, but can you bolt it back into the frame just to undo the nut? If not, can you make a jig out of some scrap steel that can be clamped in the vice or to the work bench with a G-clamp?
* Now I've said this, I bet I know what my next job will be!
I have jus used chain....and standard workshop bench "wice".
Oil seal not present at all?
How come I'm not even surprised?
If I'm not wrong that is : 65-3508, right?
I hope so since that is waiting already in Preston...at my brother's..
Quote from: Dan_B33 on 16 Mar, 2024, 13:28
If I'm not wrong that is : 65-3508, right?
65-3508 is correct part number for Gearbox Sprocket Oil Seal Dan, but TBF to PO, it looks like he fitted a sealed bearing, so if you do same and also fit the Oil Seal you've doubled up on sealing!! I have a friend who swears by leaving the seal on both sides of this bearing, as his logic is that the bearing will be saved from any metallic particles swilling about in the oil. You could also fit a PES drain plug which has a built in magnet like I did.
https://pesltd.uk/?product=28-0043
When this was discussed before I went away and checked - the speed taring of bearings in grease is half that of those in oil. Of course the gearbox bearings don't spin that fast so maybe a non-issue.
I have outer seal and keep the bearing outer seal too.
I will go that way.
Someone have put Grease into the Gearbox. There was no oil at all.
When I've put some diesel gearbox started leaking....
Will find out when stripped ( I know on 4th gear) what was the issue. Life is not fair....I have some welded parts inside!!
I have decided to leave Gearbox for my emotions to cool down.
Question ❓ Magneto rotates anticlockwise, right? Then dynamo clockwise....looking from the timing side.
Asking since stator on my dynamo shows anticlockwise arrow....but I get current only by spinning the rotor clockwise.
Hello Dan, These gearboxes were NOT designed for grease as you probably well know. The bushes rely on plenty of oil to keep them in tip top condition.. That last pic was almost impossible to translate into what it actually is BTW!! But if its the gear lever selector mechanism pawls, then they are often welded due to wear.
Now regarding your mag and looking from the timing side of the engine, the mag would turn anti-clockwise. From the Crank pinion (CW) to Inlet Cam (ACW) to Idler Gear (CW) to Mag Pinion (ACW) so as the dynamo runs off the fibre gear inside the Mag housing it would run CW.
Thanks Ian.
I didn't know that oil is so crucial for this gearbox.
I hope damage inside is not too big.
At least dynamo is in working order....and is producing some voltage ⚡. Still not 100% original...
Big end is waiting for bearings to come from UK.
This time I will have some oil flow at the top...naw bush aligned and adjusted ...
Parts are packed and will leave Preston this weekend! Yupi!
Currently I'm working still on adjusting magneto base in engine casing. I had to fit helicoils to fix threads for clutch case fixing bolts...kill me they are metric now M8x1.25!
Have good weekend ALL!
Question ⁉️:
What shall be that distance from the picture?
My clutch case was enforced (fixed) that moved it couple of mils away from Gearbox. I have already removed about 3mm of this extra metal. Need to know if I'm safe with this 7mm ?
Not having any dimensions available to hand, my thought process would be to fit the felt washer and sliding plate then fit the clutch hub and check for clearance there between hub and sliding plate. What clutch are you going to use with the bike.. 4 or 6 spring? Further to this, the front mount for the chainguard is off the rear of the primary back cover, so you'll have to get the position somewhat correct for the guard to fit right.
Hello,
Idea is to fit 6 spring clutch. This is what I had there.
I have bought some second hand clutch in UK and will try to make one working set with brand new metal plates and no-suflex clutching plates .
Before strapping the bike I have noticed that clutch case was moving with press of the clutch lever....which shouldn't happened right?
Primary case shouldn't move.. Sounds as if clutch was culprit. I tried the 6 spring on my M33 and gave up with it as I couldn't adjust it to stop drag or slip, so bought the 4 spring clutch kit from Kidderminster Motorcycles. Up to now it has been no problem.
This is plug and Play this Kidderminster Motorcycles?
I think I will try with 6 springs first since invested 100 quid in fricton plates an metal plates already...
The 4 spring clutch kit is fit and (don't have to mess too much) in my estimation Dan. I even fitted one to my WM20 as I had issues with the single spring clutch that was originally fitted.
I think that it is possible to get a 6-spring clutch to work well onece you have the centre running true with decent bearings etc.
I could never get my 4-spring clutches not to crunch without freeing it off when cold (clutch pulled in and a swing on kickstart) it got to be a habit/ritual.
Maybe the choice of drive plates and oil grade?
My 6-spring with 600 motor using genuine Surflex plates and modern chaincase oil is light on action and works well, although I have not attempted to loft the front wheel yet! Ultimately I will likely fit an NEB assembly if it misbehaves.
Question why this baskets have different heights? All 6 springs. Is it for 3-4-5 plates?
B31 has 3 plates a B33 has 4 and a A7 and A10 has 5 plates. Although I have always found 5 plates on a B33.
The 6 spring clutches came in 3 variants, 3 plate for the B31, 4 plate for the B33 and 6 plate for the A7, A10 and 500 Gold Star. I'm not sure which version was fitted to the 350 Gold Star. My B32 has a 3 plate clutch and since I have a few spare plates I was going to try it with an extra friction plate and corresponding plain plate but although the basket will accept more plates the central drum won't. I do have a complete 6 spring clutch but I'm saving that for now.
What is the height of your centre basket and outer chain wheel
As Derek points out it is the centre basket (and pushrod length) that decides if you can fit 5 friction plates or not. I ran 4 plates on my B31 and later ZB
I have 5 on the 'Goldie'.
Modern plates are thinner than the cork variety
Hi, thanks for your fast response!
I haven't measured hight yet but tried to fit 5 an later 4 plates (old ones). Looks far better with 4 shall work fine (second picture).
Other option is to fit higher inner basket from old clutch to have 5 plates. Still if it can run on 4 plates I would stick to this. Tis second hand clutch from UK looks far better...and I will have new plates
I think center basked can hold either 5 or 4 it's high enough.
Sorry for the pictures sizes...still need competence development over that area.
Based on the last pic you have too many plates, as when you lift the plate it will disengage from the tongues on the inner basket and it will spin out of location.
Your second picture looks correct.
Yes, the last picture is with 5 plates. The one in the middle is with 4 plates and I think tongues are far out to secure clutching....what do you think?
This'll either confirm or confuse, but here goes. My old 6 spring clutch, now replaced with a 4 spring, measures up as follows:
Inner basket 1.575"/40.0mm deep
Stud length 2.075"/52.7mm
Outer basket 1.413"/35.9mm
There are 4 friction plates and 5 plain plates.
Thanks Rog!
Amazon failed to deliver my clutch friction plates and oil pump spindle....
I have put on pause clutch work.
Looks like I will be able to put engine back int piece ( I know would be better to fit oil pump first ).
I gave finally made my magneto fit and sparking!
Bellow snap .
Oil seal is metric! Shall do the job!
I have made my magneto working like charm. Now time to fit dynamo.
I have new fibre gear....both magneto and dynamo spin freely when separated. . When joined they grind. Too tight fit? See the picture. How to solve that? Some shim on the dynamo bed (between dynamo an magneto?
Through my experience ,pattern parts again assumed the part you bought is a repro , the mag /dyno and bsa A10 fibre gears are a problem ,pitching , I have seen them run like that and stripped all teeth of and what a mess ,
Thanks Rog!
Where I could source fitting (proper) fibre gear?
Any suggestions?
I think I have a spare. Not NOS by any means but an original Lucas/BSA part nonetheless.
I'll have a look when I get out into the garages later.
Thanks Neil!
Please let me known....w can arrange all via my brother (who liver in Preston's)
Cheers
Dan
I've got three spare
One narrow one with holes in the friction disc and another with chewed edge and one that is very good.
You can have it for price of postage.
If you pm an email address I can send you pics to be sure it is what you need.
Hello Neil,
That is really generous of You!
I have dropped PW to you.
Cheers
Dan
Hello,
Question ⁉️
What she'll be then the length of clutch pushrod when I fit 4 plates?
6 springs clutch.
Turns out my pushrod were welded so I think of sourcing new one ..
Here are the different clutch baskets:
Three are the deeper type that will accept 5 plates and the odd one is the 4 plate variant:
(https://i.imgur.com/vronKyj.jpeg)
The deeper ones are like this (39mm deep):
(https://i.imgur.com/4nnY593.jpeg)
The shallower one is here (34mm deep):
(https://i.imgur.com/4nnY593.jpeg)
The push rod will depend on the length of your mainshaft
I have two here, one is 18 1/2 long (for a s/a mainshaft in std T box)
The other is 18 1/4 and probably too short for an s/a gear box os if it is correct for yours you are welcome to it.
On a related topic here are the three spare dynamo fibre gears I have:
There is a slimmer one is 0.385" wide (the one with holes and the other two are same teeth and diameter bit 0.51" wide
(https://i.imgur.com/CheEPEk.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/IK46P7a.jpeg)
Hi Neil,
Many thanks for sharing.
Inner basket (34mm- think 4 plates) I have one.
So either of this 39mm deep would do for 5 plates, right?
As for the fibre gear ideal is the middle one. I would go for it
Please let me know if you have my email on PW so we can agree details.
Cheers
Dan
What's new?
Current state : waiting for oil pump spindle.
I have prepared all bearings of big end (new) are in place.
Few bits ordered in UK waiting for shipment to Poland....
Blimey, I had to go downstairs to get to the bottom of those pics..
Odd because use my usual Imgur links
No idea why !
Just received parts from Amazon.
This finally came from UK-weird!
Ready to assemble the engine...
Before you fit the gear in case hold them up togeather helix gear should mesh nicely and by sight should be at exact right angles , a lot of aftermarket are miles out ,also measure the shaft and the inside of case ,again some pattern ones are under size and rattle around in case when running ,hope you understand what I am trying to say ,regards Roy
Hi Roy,
Many thanks for advising!
Yes I get you point. Will check both pieces.
I have taken set of two just because on Amazon this come close to the price of oil pump drove spindle (compared to UK) . I think source might be even the same. If they fit I will replace both.
Hopefully a couple of photos are attached ,you can see the original items are square ,and the pattern drive spindle the helix gear is incorrect,also the diameter of some pattern drive spindle are undersize ,the original spindle measures 0.6345 ,regards Roy
Hopefully a couple of photos are attached ,you can see the original items are square ,and the pattern drive spindle the helix gear is incorrect,also the diameter of some pattern drive spindle are undersize ,the original spindle measures 0.6345 ,regards Roy
I have measured it: 06325....the same is the old one. Thou old one is a but higher. 3.235inch old one and new one 3.151inch.
Will that hurt?
The other question is abou the warm nut...this new one looks like has higher lock groove other dimension are same. Shall I machine new lock key? And looking at old part this warm threads towards the end are grind so there is no thin ending....shall I adjust it same way in new part....to stay on the safe side and avoid small pieces of metal flying in the oil...later
Dan ,if not allready first check the helix on both the pump drivespindle and the engine. Pinion gear to make sure they run square ,you can see in the 2x photo I sent the difference against the set square pattern one is not. Correct , looking at your pinion gear then I think to be safe make new woodruff key ,the length of the spindle may not be a problem but you need to Check cearfull when you assemble ,regards Roy
Hi Roy,
I can see now what you meant!
I will double check if it is 90°.
Many thanks for remaining....
Talking to AESpares but this whole set is bad! All spins ok when not connected.....spindle in the block and oil pump....
When I engage with oil pump it spins just a half turn then it's blocked. So I guess the groove at the end is noc centric?
Just to add....can you please recommend source of that oil pump drive from UK?
It is a shame but an ebay seller (who usually sells rebuilt gearboxes) called clamp1010 had a really nice set of clean oil pump drive gears (and some other B31/3 engine parts that ended just after you posted your pictures.
I hope you get a full refund from the suppliers (AES?)
Personally would go with slightly worn original on something as crucial as oil pump drive vs something that you do not know what quality steel was used (my observation is that the Indian made stuff is made correctly but from inferior metal so I am surprised at these parts).
Here is a BSA one:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/326101681615?itmmeta=01HWZS7DR07JFR9EDAFQ9Z80SQ&hash=item4bed2cc5cf:g:7UsAAOSwAQBmKNTQ&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA8Iv1EgkaWYYGQuwNUgCDW0bJWpZsg3VSWYTDFu0wWDk1qz1NEyEk%2FkHvAuugcuo4hheJpidsdnkaqfmAuL5qsNRLwolvPaW%2Fi23gvhg1ebvRgzS31BdKeqwi2PFVo1zj7svMlI%2BN3kENb3VZhXTN258yApepytSx6JDqisTEIAiAYDhmg6pJlV4oycljuDPPKwmdPit2kp0gmfW7YRYJMusKbX%2Bhf0AeWIn%2BgqAJITi4CbwwMialit0OWjEhFr5IIx%2FfAZyArQ6gm9I34suEFgKcZW4EC9KfjAgCWKIcvQQoS3az68a5Qfds5c0lmyobrg%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR6DcnfnnYw (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/326101681615?itmmeta=01HWZS7DR07JFR9EDAFQ9Z80SQ&hash=item4bed2cc5cf:g:7UsAAOSwAQBmKNTQ&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA8Iv1EgkaWYYGQuwNUgCDW0bJWpZsg3VSWYTDFu0wWDk1qz1NEyEk%2FkHvAuugcuo4hheJpidsdnkaqfmAuL5qsNRLwolvPaW%2Fi23gvhg1ebvRgzS31BdKeqwi2PFVo1zj7svMlI%2BN3kENb3VZhXTN258yApepytSx6JDqisTEIAiAYDhmg6pJlV4oycljuDPPKwmdPit2kp0gmfW7YRYJMusKbX%2Bhf0AeWIn%2BgqAJITi4CbwwMialit0OWjEhFr5IIx%2FfAZyArQ6gm9I34suEFgKcZW4EC9KfjAgCWKIcvQQoS3az68a5Qfds5c0lmyobrg%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR6DcnfnnYw)
Expand the photos and look very cearfully to the condition of some of the items , I see on EBay a new pinion and drive spindle unused the seller states it was purchased from Phil Pearson engineering,which in the past have been top quality ,take a look item number 295795135832
They look pretty good to me.
Foolishly I gave away a lot of my engine odds and ends like this to a chap that bought a B33 motor off me a few years ago.
Many thanks for the links and item number...I will have look.
For one week I go far from my garage ....I will try to find some solution to the problem...
Hi, while I'm off just one thing started bothering me. I gave not ordered gearbox bushes (except the ones which go in the gear on main shaft). Any recommendations for quality source?
Would like to avoid disappointment....
Thanks a lot I advance.
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/ITAAAOSwFlZmQJS0/s-l1600.webp)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/126478471600?itmmeta=01HXST4FHXQZM76FJNK2Q1RCAJ&hash=item1d72b451b0:g:ITAAAOSwFlZmQJS0&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA4HrjbzgcomP4HLEQMs2ZBCXdbghCBnQwHo%2B4qmo%2FPMvnS3X6OZuw1UkHjeqirvlfMuFXtLYH68oRB5N3ocvhS0mYOOHqWiYeN%2Fdw%2FqaWOiaadAfNQC9BZDdgOFxV9Y106dmOx%2FMMOzZeXyi6%2FSOm8g9lshyDD%2Byt7mIcR6lgN72wYH%2BHre2VmoNabxhbXJRu%2FKBShaI0ki5k5AKb5QGjkGYmBhS01QI7%2FLn2X1H7GYfp6WYrhg943oDImQElhzQdArk0Etz%2BhZgwo2tf%2B0rVwt1mixQSbpDXYuB6y29PUI0b%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR575kbruYw (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/126478471600?itmmeta=01HXST4FHXQZM76FJNK2Q1RCAJ&hash=item1d72b451b0:g:ITAAAOSwFlZmQJS0&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA4HrjbzgcomP4HLEQMs2ZBCXdbghCBnQwHo%2B4qmo%2FPMvnS3X6OZuw1UkHjeqirvlfMuFXtLYH68oRB5N3ocvhS0mYOOHqWiYeN%2Fdw%2FqaWOiaadAfNQC9BZDdgOFxV9Y106dmOx%2FMMOzZeXyi6%2FSOm8g9lshyDD%2Byt7mIcR6lgN72wYH%2BHre2VmoNabxhbXJRu%2FKBShaI0ki5k5AKb5QGjkGYmBhS01QI7%2FLn2X1H7GYfp6WYrhg943oDImQElhzQdArk0Etz%2BhZgwo2tf%2B0rVwt1mixQSbpDXYuB6y29PUI0b%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR575kbruYw)
Thanks Neil,
I have asked my brother to place a bid.
Dan
Question to the next step before fitting barrel.
I had there metal spacer an really thin paper gasket.
This gasket cames thin but bad quality in gasket set .
Shape easy to make so the question is :
Can I use 0.5mm gasket material or it has to be thin paper?
Cheers
0.5mm gasket paper should be ok. It will compress slightly when the barrel studs are tightened and will have a negligible effect on the compression.
Thanks Derek!
Will do it that way!
Hi,
A bit stuck with the work because of severe back pain.
Managed to lap the barrel and head using valve lapping paste (all on painkillers). The rest has to wait for full recovery.
Cheers
Dan
Quote from: Dan_B33 on 29 May, 2024, 11:59
Managed to lap the barrel and head using valve lapping paste
Cheers
Dan
I was engaged in the same lengthy task last year; see photo. It does help to have the radio on, and a mate to come round and take both pictures and the mick...
Hi Rog,
Nice one! Fully focused on the task!
Today I have received refund from AS Spares...(Oil pump drive).
They made no problems at all and all went smoothly.
I still consider buying from them in the future since looks like they care a lot about customers.
Cheers
Dan
Hello,
Back in the game!
Looks like that all has a chance to work!
Dry fit to check if I have enough play on the timing...and head sits freely on the barrel...tested Ok!
Abou the clutch pushrod.
What is the length for 6 springs clutch 4 plates? Can I use swing arm model pushrod?
What would be safe to take?
Just to add current it is 12" long.
Looks like this one would be 1to1 replacement.
https://www.feked.com/bsa-12-clutch-push-rod-4-spring-clutch-a10-super-rocket-and-rgs-models-conversions.html
I could cut if too long right?
But that was with 5 plates and would 11+12" (292mm) fit 4 plates?
I would assume nothing and see whether the pushrod you have is at or close to the right length, before replacing it. If you need to, anneal the pushrod and shorten it until it's right, then measure it. You'll then be sure of the length and you can buy a new one.
Hi Rog,
I wish it was that easy with buying.
I have few bits waiting in UK for shipment to Poland....among them are clutch plates....so I would like to order and have it delivered all at once
Some suppliers sell a pushrod that can be cut to length; only one end is hardened. Once at the right length it's an easy job to harden the cut end; I've done it myself. Here's one:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/274261547922?itmmeta=01HZP776XM80P354B9HAVPVWS4&hash=item3fdb431b92:g:xHQAAOSwAg9izYMS&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA8FlNq%2FAAem%2BCmLb7Cax0AokXAbPEUT47JzU8gfzbJ1sk%2FKs58o8OtXRYuR%2Btr7zHn7SfpWIEJq5urjjTer8xR9RJaqDL7Etok6m9JXQy4kT0Ae6Bw4Y8qz6F%2Fks5eyCAzZ7nGW2NascxXUnDl6izuJZ9rMijV21bQlSpcxh1EJBJ2oqO4BfK0qPxde8761UiBRAi2UMErdWZ16BM0hleuj64Bpmk4ZG4tbrAf4H3cyB8Q93nD2ZTGe8%2FCDttqI0OII49mPCHF4K3jG0azklfTQm9vgVMnduXbFc8SEr6ISNBnqyienUbXq4E6J%2BGERBZHA%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR_DunMf9Yw (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/274261547922?itmmeta=01HZP776XM80P354B9HAVPVWS4&hash=item3fdb431b92:g:xHQAAOSwAg9izYMS&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA8FlNq%2FAAem%2BCmLb7Cax0AokXAbPEUT47JzU8gfzbJ1sk%2FKs58o8OtXRYuR%2Btr7zHn7SfpWIEJq5urjjTer8xR9RJaqDL7Etok6m9JXQy4kT0Ae6Bw4Y8qz6F%2Fks5eyCAzZ7nGW2NascxXUnDl6izuJZ9rMijV21bQlSpcxh1EJBJ2oqO4BfK0qPxde8761UiBRAi2UMErdWZ16BM0hleuj64Bpmk4ZG4tbrAf4H3cyB8Q93nD2ZTGe8%2FCDttqI0OII49mPCHF4K3jG0azklfTQm9vgVMnduXbFc8SEr6ISNBnqyienUbXq4E6J%2BGERBZHA%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR_DunMf9Yw)
(Please excuse the stupidly long web address; it's Ebay's fault...)
Perfect!
Thanks a lot!
I have put engine together!
Engine rotates and oil flow work ok. I get knocking/ clicking noise when the valve spring is being released. When it is passin the highest point of a cam. Inlet makes considerably smaller noise. Clearance is set to 0.03inch. (0.008mm)
Sorry 0.003inch which will be 0.008mm.
Is that clicking noise ok? I can't make engine running since I do not have operating Gearbox
Through my experience I would say it's quite normal to hear the clicking its the tension of valve spring trying to take up back lash in cam gears etc it will only do it when turned over slowly,Roy
I hope that's the issue.
I will double check the free play on exhaust valve.
Manual says 0.003inch is a minimum...so guess better bi loose than too tight.
I was double checking the cams settings and dot side (exhaust) side is set wit the mark matching dot . Thel line mark however is not present o on the run (just on edge not sure if accurately) . How many teeth I shall have between dot and line markings?
According to both the Haynes manual and the pdf of the owner's handbook on the BSAOC site, it should be 5 teeth, including the ones opposite the cam pinion dot and line markings. In your photo you have 6 teeth.
Plenty of helpful info in the member's section of the club website; I've used it often.
It's the back lash in the gears them selves ,not TAPPET clearances ,Roy
Dan,
Judging from the photo, there seems to be no clearance between the teeth of the inlet cam pinion and the idler pinion, which may create a loud whine when running.
All the teeth look a bit worn, particularly on the half time pinion, and the timing mark is indistinct.
I also notice what looks like a timing mark line on the exhaust pinion at 1 o'clock.
It's difficult to tell from the photo, but I would look closely at the above points.
I'm not sure why there would be no clearance between the teeth...wear in the shaft or bush, wrong parts?
I wonder if someone might be able to post pictures of the pinions, showing what distinct timing marks look like?
I agree with Roy about the 'click' and you can confirm this by putting a piece of cardboard or cloth between the meshing teeth, whereupon the click will disappear.
At the very least, I think you need a new half time pinion.
Many thanks I will double check.
I hope parts are right....
I will poste new picture when I make new setup
Gearbox leakage located!
One stud missing!
I hope no more surprises...
So this is inner case screw 65-2157
1-14inch long. Anyone knows what is the thread?
Dan
I believe these screws are 1¼" x ¼Whit.
Thanks Derek .Think will order from Dragonfly if they are in stock. All 3 are missing. Kickstart spring home made! ( I have already brought new one luckily). Kickstart stop rubber as well home made! I will go further....scared a bit!
Hi,
Finally got into the gearbox inside.
I do not like what I see!
I can't remove cluster because of stuck Speedo drive.
Any suggestions how to make it gently?
Dan
I have checked that there is one selector on eBay:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/325947105812?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D777008%26algo%3DPERSONAL.TOPIC%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20240315173020%26meid%3D3ec634426deb4b7d82b632042752da6e%26pid%3D102069%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26itm%3D325947105812%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D4375194%26algv%3DRecentlyViewedItemsV2SignedOutMobile%26brand%3DBSA&_trksid=p4375194.c102069.m5481&_trkparms=parentrq%3A1be681071900ac1d2e8973f3fffeb21a%7Cpageci%3Aefa0f1ff-2b13-11ef-9c58-f2ac94a4ee51%7Ciid%3A1%7Cvlpname%3Avlp_homepage
Any suggestions why that might be wrong idea to buy this one?
I'd be a bit wary of buying these selectors. Even the seller doesn't know what gearbox they are from!
I live the selector fork you need is part no. 66-3290. I've found 2 possibles although one is in Australia.
https://www.classicbikepartscheshire.com/engine-transmission-c37/gears-transmission-c49/bsa-b31-b34-gearbox-selector-fork-oem-no-66-3290-made-in-uk-p3989 (https://www.classicbikepartscheshire.com/engine-transmission-c37/gears-transmission-c49/bsa-b31-b34-gearbox-selector-fork-oem-no-66-3290-made-in-uk-p3989)
https://mikesclassiccyclespares.com/product/66-3290/ (https://mikesclassiccyclespares.com/product/66-3290/)
Thanks,
I will try to find full set wit the Shaft.
I made some progress on main shaft....received from the machine workshop.. new bushes seated in the sleeve gear and new kisctart bush made. Costed around 300pln (60quid) with sleeve bush provided by me.
How do I extract that Clio securing bearin in gearbox?
Removed! Will replace with modern one
Gearbox assembly.
Setup shall be on top gear. I have seen couple of videos.
Is there any picture on the cluster how exactly it shall be set especially selector?
I think I managed to assemble for trial.
All gears engage okej.
I have this "unknown selector" from eBay.
Will post later side by side with welded one.
Looks like I have more luck than wisdom....
Some picture
So, I will confirm if that selector works dynamically on the bikelater.
So far this is good hint for the future if you approach one cheap on eBay....go for it( if you are risk hungry).
You can see on the picture selector which is engaging 4th has bigger pin and wider groove...still selects all gears ok.
Someone might know why they made it different?
Or that is some some garage made part?
Here they are both.
I've seen 2 small pins or 2 large but never a combination. Perhaps someone changed a selector fork at some stage? Does the large one look tampered with on the other end?
Keep up the good work!
Glenn
Hello,
Thank for the good words!
The big one is not tempered. The only difference that it is not drilled underneath....and bigger groove and pin.
No the best template for inner case gasket from Faked.uk.
Some extra hole in it ? Or my gearbox is different?
Looks like gearbox main case fits to the template!
Means one bolt less?
I'm about to put clutch together. I went for non surflex plates.
Old school says cork plates shall be soaked in oil befor assembling.
Is that the case wit this one's?
I hope you are I'm not boring?
What is going one wit the clutch sleeve?
Look like mine old worn is bigger.
The second hand one is not seated on the shaft far enough .
Is there way to machine that? Or what would be the part I need?
Can someone just confirm that fo blue arrow indicated sleeve 65-3873?
The clutch sleeve comes in 3 different sizes.
42-3107 https://draganfly.co.uk/shop/66604/sleeve-clutch/#42-3107 (https://draganfly.co.uk/shop/66604/sleeve-clutch/#42-3107) Fits 1956 onward s/a models.
65-3873 https://draganfly.co.uk/shop/72978/clutch-sleeve-sold-complete-with-collar/#65-3873 (https://draganfly.co.uk/shop/72978/clutch-sleeve-sold-complete-with-collar/#65-3873) I think this should fit your bike.
65-3930 https://draganfly.co.uk/shop/72991/clutch-sleeve-na-1596689378/#65-3930 (https://draganfly.co.uk/shop/72991/clutch-sleeve-na-1596689378/#65-3930) This fits my bike. I'm surprised it is still available.
Thanks Derek!
I need middle one for sure. Good shape...or new.
Now I have first one good shape and ruined middle one 65-6873
I have already asked Dragonfly how long I need to wait for that one in case of a order.
If anyone has one :65-6873 spare? Gladly will buy if in good shape
Reply from Dragonfly - no suppliers 30weeks plus waiting!
Anyone has it stock?
Or anyone on that forum has experience buying from:
https://tribsaparts.com/bsa-koppeling-pas-stuk-bsa-clutch-sleeve-65-3873/
???
Quote from: Dan_B33 on 09 Jul, 2024, 20:32
Or anyone on that forum has experience buying from:
https://tribsaparts.com/bsa-koppeling-pas-stuk-bsa-clutch-sleeve-65-3873/
???
Link not working!
I guess I have ordered last one.
I have spoken to the bloke today. Sounds honest decent man.
I shall have sleeve after I'm back from holidays.
Fingers crossed it fits perfect and I will be "well pleased" (as Alan Millard says).
I have browsed on their stock for BSA.
Reasonable prices for parts for this living in UE.
For now I m enjoying two wheels in Greece.... greetings to you all
Here it is part from Neil fitted.
It is perfect! Goes smoothly and makes no noise!
Cheers Neil!
Fighting with magneto and dynamo setup...while waiting for clutch sleeve from Netherlands to come!
Good
Is the fibre gear fully home?
Normally it is flush with the front face of the magdyno body
I'm concerned that it might bind on the triangular faceplate when that is installed?
Hi Neil,
All works perfectly and fits ideally.
Runs smoothly with no grinding noise when fully assembled.
All I need is to complete the work and start the motor to see how it goes....all together
Hello,
I have my part delivered!
https://tribsaparts.com
This is well run shop I recommend it!
Bauke is good bloke , you can call and ask about the parts.
Progress today:
- ignition set!
- clutch installed
- gearbox ready for oil
- engine ready for oil
Need to do:
- install carburettor with a cables
Try to run!
-
Hello!
First kicks today!
Managed to fire her once!
Need to double chec the carburettor settings .
How far out shall be air screw on monoblock?
Looks like I have too much fuel...black smoke and wet spark.
Any hints on carburetor setup?
Your bike appears to have a Monobloc carb fitted. The OEM jetting for the Monobloc uses a 260 main jet, a 3 ½ slide with a 1065 needle jet. Pilot could be a 30 or 35. I'd try with the air screw about 1 ½ to 2 turns out and kick it with the throttle closed. If the throttle is too far open it may not want to fire. Once you have it running and warmed up adjust the air screw for maximum revs at idle then adjust the throttle stop for a sensible tick over speed
Excellent start and good suggestions
I presume your float and needle are good and you did not over tickle!
Half retard, couple of priming strokes, nudge over tdc and give it a full blooded swing.
I presume you have the usual solid copper core HT lead, no suppressor plug cap and a non suppressed plug? Points 12 though and plug gap 18 thou.
Many thanks Neil an Derek!
I will double check jetting. Needle jest is for sure 106. That would be right. Not sure about slide size and pilot jet. Need to check.
My fear is that the float is not set properly and it is flooding...with fuel. I will check that tomorrow and go to see the rest of the hints.
Plug cup shall have almost no resistance, right (like few ohms) . Spark plug is BR6HS ....is that ok?
Dan
The BR6HS plug has a built in resistor, not what you want with a magneto ignition. You need the non-resistor version - B6HS.
Hi,
My bad went to garage my spark plugs are B6HS by NGK.
I have measured plug cup and it look like it has some kOhms resistance.
Measured plugs the are less than 2 Ohms, shall be good
Need to buy new cable since it is copper but not single wire...but still almost no resistance on in.
Still to revise:
Float level
Points gap (it was 10thou)
Ignition timing accuracy
CheerDan
The copper stranded wire with no resistance will be fine.
The cap less so.
I also solder the copper wire once fed through the brass washer at the magneto end (otherwise get oil and gunk around the wires. I make it a smooth blob and file it flat to get a good connection on the carbon plunger.
Thanks Neil.
Will do the soldering when all set properly.
I have changed spark plug to NGK LZFH (1.5quid) spark is brighter.
Need to chec other things ....recheck timing and carb settings
My calculations tell me I have been seating up timing wrong way.
Spark plug angle is around 60deg. I shall calculate new value using Pitagoras.....i did and it comes close to 11 mm before TDC.
Considering if the angle was straight it is 9.52mm....need to check tomorrow
I have used sinus function of 60deg ...tomorrow shall see if any joy
I don't know how you are calculating your ignition timing setting Dan but the timing for the B33 engine is 7/16" (= 11.11mm = 38º) before TDC.
Is it 7/16" or i have read on that forum it is 3/8".
7/16th is for B31 is that the same for B33?
Dan
3/8 inch see attached from the BSA factory. But I suspect your would find not too much difference in use between 7/16 and 3/8 inch.
The Gold Star (with same stroke as the B31/33) maintenanace manual helpfully converts to degrees.
When I have set it 3/8 looked like it is too late....black smoke (ortoo rich mixture) . I will try 7/16 and see how it goes...
Answering questions what I do calculate?
I can't imagine stripping clutch cover to setup timing in the future.
I would like to use small "gizmo" into spark plug hole with gauge..
With descompresor lever pressed ....I get the reading on where is the piston . Can set TDC and then amount needed before TDC.
Calculate and explanations attached.
Since gauge is not dropping straight angle on the pisto but rather 60 degee...I need to know what is the new value...
Turns out for 7/16" (11.1125mm) my value is 12.83mm.
I hope that explains?
Gizmo on the picture!
Please let me know abou that lazy Idea 💡.
What can go wrong ....with setting timing using that methodology?
Quote from: JulianS on 01 Aug, 2024, 10:34
3/8 inch see attached from the BSA factory. But I suspect your would find not too much difference in use between 7/16 and 3/8 inch.
The Gold Star (with same stroke as the B31/33) maintenanace manual helpfully converts to degrees.
I stand corrected. It is indeed ⅜" = 9.53mm
Quote from: Dan_B33 on 01 Aug, 2024, 11:43
When I have set it 3/8 looked like it is too late....black smoke (ortoo rich mixture) . I will try 7/16 and see how it goes...
I wouldn't think the timing out by few degrees would make any difference to how rich or otherwise it runs.
No matter what I do either 3/8 or 7/16....no joy!
Spark plug is wet after 3 kicks. And spark is so solid that it light remains of a fuel on spark plug if I kick it outside on cylinder.
Could it be too high fuel level?
Okay; you have fuel and a good spark and so I suspect it's a timing issue. So here are some questions.
Do you always turn the engine forward to the timing position, not backwards? You need to take up all the slack in the drive to the magneto, by turning the engine in the direction it will run in. If you don't, the timing will be out.
Do you check the timing once set? You have to give the magneto pinion a sharp tap to seat it on to the taper, or else it will shift when you do the nut up. Just place a large socket against the pinion and tap the socket with a hammer; not too hard, but sharp. But still check it afterwards.
Is the advance/retard lever in the right position and is the cable properly adjusted when you set the timing? Does the mechanism work as it should? As you look from the left side of the bike, is the advance/retard cable to the left of the points (the cable should be slack) or to the right (the cable should be tight).
You might have been told all this already but it's late and I'm tired; I haven't checked the other posts.
A bit unlikely especially if you have good compression, but is the valve lifter properly adjusted and not holding the exhaust valve open?
Quote from: Dan_B33 on 01 Aug, 2024, 19:35
No matter what I do either 3/8 or 7/16....no joy!
Spark plug is wet after 3 kicks. And spark is so solid that it light remains of a fuel on spark plug if I kick it outside on cylinder.
Could it be too high fuel level?
So the spark timing is set correctly, there's compression, a good spark and enough juice to wet the plug. It should run given those conditions, but are you sure you set the timing on the compression stroke rather than exhaust stroke?
Sorry if it's been mentioned before.
Hi,
All positions checked from Rog list !
I managed to run her when I have set timing 3/8" before TDC.
But just 2 or 3 times!
Now it is on 7/16"...not staring.
For sure I set on compression stroke...
After inlet valve goes down and before outlet lifts.
Compression is strong...I need to use decompression lever to force piston move past the compression stroke or jump full weight in kick-start
I will keep on trying...
Hello Dan
I usually start my B33 with the advance lever set about 1/2 or maybe 2/3 towards fully advanced. If it doesn't start after 2-3 tries it is probably because I flooded it with too much fuel. I pull in the decompression lever, open the throttle about 1/2 and kick it over and it fires up no problem.
Setting the fully advanced at 7/16 or 3/8 btdc will not make any difference to starting because when starting, you are backing off the advance to something around 1/4 btdc. I set my fully advanced at 7/16 btdc using a wooden dowel (with a big duct tape flag taped to the top so it doesn't fall in the cylinder) with 7/16 inch pencil marks aligned with some reference point on the outside. So dial gauge precision isn't really necessary.
Jim
Hello Jim,
Many thanks for advise and sharing.
I have used Philips screwdriver today to set the timing roughly at 3/8....then rechecked couple of tomes with wire tight (right side of magneto) and gues what ? It started 1or 2nd kick.
Died I kicked again - started.
Then I gave added fuel ...tank was dry!
Have to say carburettor is connected to external tank.
And after adding a fuel...no joy!
I have rechecked tining...it remained the same.
I Gabe removed plunger valve and added smear of a solder to lover the level of the fuel...no joy!
I do not have transparent cap to check how far the fuel floats..
Enough for today...
About carburettor I try to use:
Amal monoblock 376/303 or 103 firs numbe after slash was restamped.
Slide is 376/4 (tgere is as wel numbe1)
Pilot jest 25
Main I think 106
Diameter of a outlet port...the one going to cylinder is abou 1.05"
No all is as in spec bu i guess tahat shall not be a main problem ?
That is a large slide cut away it should be a 3/1/2
Would that cause fuel overflowing?
So my slide shall be 376/3 or 376/2 or 376/1 or any of this but not 376/4?
Dan
Got answer in internet. Cutaway higher then mixture leaner...so if I go down I will get even reacher mixture on opening the throttle ..
You did not mention if your advance/retard is tight advance or slack advance.
Have you checked your float is not snagging on a gasket or it's missing a spacer or similar such that the needle is seating too late.
Just more thoughts
The cutaway and needle will not stop it running, same as the timing slightly out -it will run.
Timing way off (again slack vs tight a/r is a question) or flooding/fouled plugs will.
This is tight advance system.
I set ignition fully advanced .
All works fine cable moves freely and plate as well as it should.
Hello Dan
It is not clear to me (us) where you are setting the retard/advance lever when attempting a start. As I stated above, I usually start with the lever set at 1/2 to 2/3 advance (1/3 back from full advance).
Jim
Hello,
Might be I have solve mystery!
I have replaced pilot jet to make measurements of fuel leve in float chamber....tahat was late today evening.
Then fed up with reading I left it there in carburettor and have put cap.
I fed 20mil of gasoline and it fired 3rd time .
I kept on adding fuel bike was idling nice without black smoke ..
I need to test it more tomorrow.
The jest was the very same size 25....from spare carburettor...
Carburettor supposed to be refurbished...but....??!!
Wonder if someone refurbished a blocked pilot jet by running a drill (too big) through it?
Hi All,
Confirmed!
BSA starts first or second kick.
Faulty pilot jet or too many washers (there were two)was main problem ...on top pilot jet was blocket in metal cup.
With spare pilot jet in 1 washer and metal cup ....all works fine.
Too noisy cams?
Do you guys recall I said when pushrod is passing highest point on cam it makes (think cam) clicking noise?
That bothers me!
I have set valve clearance 0.003" and double checked...stays intact...when bike runs that sound is very audible
Could it be that braz bearings are worn on cams?
Dan
My dear Fellow,
As I suggested in a previous post, your half time pinion is shagged out. Also, from the photo, there is insufficient clearance between the inlet pinion and the idler pinion. You seem not to be concerned about this.
Does anyone else agree?
I thought Dan replaced these?
Hello Steve ,
You are totally right.
An yes I have neglected that , takin that as a less burning issues.
So I have to source : half time pinion, idler pinion (for sure this one has a lot of play)
Thanks for recalling
Looks like inlet cam ...might need replacing as well
Good Man. That should quieten down your cams.
I have now two weeks outside country. Plenty of time to browse e bay.
I have half time pinion from AS spares. Brand new but needs machine work ...too tight.
I guess with idler pinion better is NOS than second hand, right?
Same with cams, right?
Dan
One question this New half time pinion has deep groove for the key an original one has swallow...would that make any difference? I guess I need to make new key anyway?
NOS (ie from proven BSA source) is always best, followed by good original used, followed by new replica parts.
I have found that so much replica stuff is substandard and does not fit when first offered up. When you are talking about such fundamental things as crank pinions and oil pump drives good used is always preferable to unverified (and non-warrantied) new parts. If it needs fettling to fit you then start to worry about materials (too soft, too brittle etc).
Hello,
Thanks for that advise Neil!
By any chance you could share idler pionin parameters
Mine is really worn especially on the bush.
So ideal would.be what is that inner braz bush size (fi).
Width of pinion? How may teeth?
Cheers
Dan
Just to add I'm far fro my garage till 16th but could see some parts on eBay UK. If someone shares the measurements I could buy already now
If idler pinion ID :18.57mm would make good clearance or it is too lose?
Hello, small update.
All pinions sourced in UK eBay.
Second hand ...used.
We'll see if any better than what I have.
Still on holiday....
Cheers
Hello,
Parts are in UK waiting to be shipped to me.
Currently I'm o stripping left plunger to fix broken chain adjuster bolt (no head...and just piece left to grab or weld in.)
I had to grind the part of a bolt which was in the axle hole (bean hole where tej axle goes) since it was in shape of a mushroom 🍄 head....
Hello,
That is fixed now!
Strippin the plunger I gave discovered that one of spring covers has a rather large dent. Part number 89-4249.
All on the market are chromed new ones.
I'm after second hand rusty one. Anyone has in stock to sell?
Hello,
Small update. Front forks are mess!
One has deep scratches.
Other not so bad but some....but bigger play on the braz bush...
Looks like I need new forks ...changing bushes and seals would be just a waste. Aghhh!
And that looks like candidate for replacement
I don't know how much a set of fork legs would be, but there's a company not far from me (England) with a good reputation. I don't think I've used them for rechroming but they have straightened a set for me; they say that most fork legs are bent when they come in. Here's a link:
https://www.pittedforks.co.uk (https://www.pittedforks.co.uk)
Hi Rog,
Thanks for that link and the hint.
I've had a look and mine are rather straigh.
The main problem is that one of legs is badly scratched....that won't allow sealing and all oil will be out.
Other thing is that strange thing I have two oil holes in one leg and just one hole on other... See the picture
I'm now thinking about whether buying new about 150quid or trying to take risk with second hand ones .
One is an early leg around the 50s. Damping was to strong so BSA put an extra hole in.⁷
Hi Idzie,
Right and that suggests I have forks from different period.
Drama continues:
Sliders are not matching! The one which goes on the brake side RH seems to be original 50s . And the one LH looks more to me like late 60s.
So.looking at the picture slider on the left is ok with braz bush(new )
The one on the right on the picture ...the braz bush is slightly too big
Someone has reshaped the bracket on the one on right.
They would both work together, assuming that they measure up the same and the inside bore is ok (not pitted, overly worn or rusty at the bottom
The two damper hole is the better one to have (improved by progressive springs and a Taylor-Dow type damper (have these on my 'Goldie' roadster, whether you need them on a plunger B33 is debatable.
If my stanchions were matching I would have them checked for straightness and have them hard chromed and ground/polished but as you don't have a pair it will be simpler to buy a new pair. There are different lengths 21 3/16" vs 22 3/4" for your bike. Get bushes from same source as I have found that some are ever so slightly fatter than originals (guess how I know!??)
Thanks Neil!
What I loose if I take 21 +3/16?
This is plunger at the back so anyway... suspension is just a joke on that bike.
Plungers aren't that bad...maybe yours has wear or whatever?
Roll the two stanchions together on a flat surface to check if they're slightly bent or not.
Hello V500,
I think no point to check if they are straight...one gas deep scratches I think beyond polishing...this would treat seal.
To add to this misery I have noticed that one of bottom braz bushes
Has some factory imperfection. I have wrote to supplier hoping he could send replacement....let's see. Of no joy I will where the name of company to avoid such surprises...bushes were in bubble wrap...so hart to notice theat untill I unwrapped all...today
Quote from: Dan_B33 on 27 Aug, 2024, 18:53
Hello V500,
I think no point to check if they are straight...one gas deep scratches I think beyond polishing...this would treat seal.
To add to this misery I have noticed that one of bottom braz bushes
Has some factory imperfection. I have wrote to supplier hoping he could send replacement....let's see. Of no joy I will where the name of company to avoid such surprises...bushes were in bubble wrap...so hart to notice theat untill I unwrapped all...today
That is not nice - quite a big defect (not even a benefit for oil retention!)
These stanchions (plain steel like originals) are probably cheapest - they don't come with bushes.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331669000936?var=0&&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&siteid=3&campid=5338980692&customid=jkp_CjwKCAjwlbu2BhA3EiwA3yXyuxsH-msP_YcwS_so1gxntqT8WG3mNlxdwkpVubjIP84dMBbs9H1fVhoCkAkQAvD_BwE&toolid=10001&mkevt=1&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwlbu2BhA3EiwA3yXyuxsH-msP_YcwS_so1gxntqT8WG3mNlxdwkpVubjIP84dMBbs9H1fVhoCkAkQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331669000936?var=0&&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&siteid=3&campid=5338980692&customid=jkp_CjwKCAjwlbu2BhA3EiwA3yXyuxsH-msP_YcwS_so1gxntqT8WG3mNlxdwkpVubjIP84dMBbs9H1fVhoCkAkQAvD_BwE&toolid=10001&mkevt=1&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwlbu2BhA3EiwA3yXyuxsH-msP_YcwS_so1gxntqT8WG3mNlxdwkpVubjIP84dMBbs9H1fVhoCkAkQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds)
If you plan on keeping it then these hard chromed, and come with bushes look good:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331732819891?chn=ps&_ul=GB&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-134428-41853-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=331732819891&targetid=2340111703139&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9044896&poi=1006589&campaignid=21403705192&mkgroupid=161533230130&rlsatarget=pla-2340111703139&abcId=9448312&merchantid=7283214&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwlbu2BhA3EiwA3yXyu1EchW3tqhDAGRSDiCP6_yraJPsWCpt_Yf-FXz_4RyPuf26nnB8d6hoCsywQAvD_BwE (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331732819891?chn=ps&_ul=GB&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-134428-41853-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=331732819891&targetid=2340111703139&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9044896&poi=1006589&campaignid=21403705192&mkgroupid=161533230130&rlsatarget=pla-2340111703139&abcId=9448312&merchantid=7283214&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwlbu2BhA3EiwA3yXyu1EchW3tqhDAGRSDiCP6_yraJPsWCpt_Yf-FXz_4RyPuf26nnB8d6hoCsywQAvD_BwE)
Hi Neil,
Many thanks for the recommendation.
I would expect that going for New Stanchions mens new slider as well, right?
I do not believe this second hand sliders are rust free...mine are far from perfect inside...
Sliders are getting more difficult to find (they wear elliptically and rust at the bottom if the bike has been standing for ages!)
Things to consider are:
- does your front brake (7" or 8") have the boss to fit inside the lug on the fork that has the threaded lug for font brake cable?
- do you have a front torque stay for 8" brake?
I think most of the earlier fork legs are similar (middle mudguard stay brackets can be different).
Internally most are the same.
If you are pushed and have otherwise matching legs you can get the legs lightly line bored and get a pair of o/s sintered bronze bushes made up.
If 7" front brake these will work:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/305748108219?_nkw=bsa+front+forks&itmmeta=01J6D6RMS4YFSJ9BWRP37P0PJT&hash=item473001e3bb:g:bn0AAOSwXcdmuKSk&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA8HoV3kP08IDx%2BKZ9MfhVJKmXWPs74ErJoOWHNYBHP7nJvQfatydpmDFznQ%2BQqGXaZAguPftBJLbkxkKbO2jQf0Ix7e%2FWvpPrfFGD60Atqbm1jOaLPzY95BmH%2B0i6yAXcc%2FVazMMvNJJLNTQwQ5BvlphMpJb2TY6GE%2Bs9SCCFTm97zTpBJPbNrMhlbPJCcCoUdaY7PJ%2Bw8fLLP%2FolVzquuPtWa1c8chLQAVM9wnX2WLaUd1fJGmUKLe0oUqYN6HRUcWvaYn4psqI55Uf8i%2F%2BjewzXAc1n0lx5jW6jd3cZzQFYw4aJCNVT0569FGzqqA7TTA%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR-LM4qazZA (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/305748108219?_nkw=bsa+front+forks&itmmeta=01J6D6RMS4YFSJ9BWRP37P0PJT&hash=item473001e3bb:g:bn0AAOSwXcdmuKSk&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA8HoV3kP08IDx%2BKZ9MfhVJKmXWPs74ErJoOWHNYBHP7nJvQfatydpmDFznQ%2BQqGXaZAguPftBJLbkxkKbO2jQf0Ix7e%2FWvpPrfFGD60Atqbm1jOaLPzY95BmH%2B0i6yAXcc%2FVazMMvNJJLNTQwQ5BvlphMpJb2TY6GE%2Bs9SCCFTm97zTpBJPbNrMhlbPJCcCoUdaY7PJ%2Bw8fLLP%2FolVzquuPtWa1c8chLQAVM9wnX2WLaUd1fJGmUKLe0oUqYN6HRUcWvaYn4psqI55Uf8i%2F%2BjewzXAc1n0lx5jW6jd3cZzQFYw4aJCNVT0569FGzqqA7TTA%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR-LM4qazZA)
These are later type (GS and similar) which need a torque stay and dedicated boss for the front brake cable (I have a spare one of these if needed).
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/276594481216?_nkw=bsa+front+forks&itmmeta=01J6D6RMS4QCC1Y4VYTD2W64CP&hash=item406650d840:g:U4MAAOSw5KhmvJdA&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA8HoV3kP08IDx%2BKZ9MfhVJKlvGbXIfL%2FU2h1NuC9c3aEJNT%2FOEonz9F7tjMqlZLlfoKIh0jnjau4J9eYKGou1yUh%2FpmJfaAYEpxyLHnc8w%2Fwi4IRLLqyA2EaiZIm7MijmizxP0YudsihAaOKbKkRbJQNg6VnEjlUFb0BXeJSjbRWqk0WQv6b%2BSFjqr49fu744WM6tRYloBJXXxJuUXx0%2F0upQnHEP2YMTzKFHEJkaqcOFkPqaQgUdYYV3KNXd%2BduuOz82EafqBSV1t8xhyGZwIUFqvMy00XnLBj1WWCxuHvJ7L2a1Th0UARq4QH2o0kJNnw%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR-LM4qazZA (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/276594481216?_nkw=bsa+front+forks&itmmeta=01J6D6RMS4QCC1Y4VYTD2W64CP&hash=item406650d840:g:U4MAAOSw5KhmvJdA&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA8HoV3kP08IDx%2BKZ9MfhVJKlvGbXIfL%2FU2h1NuC9c3aEJNT%2FOEonz9F7tjMqlZLlfoKIh0jnjau4J9eYKGou1yUh%2FpmJfaAYEpxyLHnc8w%2Fwi4IRLLqyA2EaiZIm7MijmizxP0YudsihAaOKbKkRbJQNg6VnEjlUFb0BXeJSjbRWqk0WQv6b%2BSFjqr49fu744WM6tRYloBJXXxJuUXx0%2F0upQnHEP2YMTzKFHEJkaqcOFkPqaQgUdYYV3KNXd%2BduuOz82EafqBSV1t8xhyGZwIUFqvMy00XnLBj1WWCxuHvJ7L2a1Th0UARq4QH2o0kJNnw%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR-LM4qazZA)
Hello Neil,
I have 7" break.
Eo first link woud do....i had a look at them but was thinking tis are just for C-models.
I had been checking other link with later type set but disqualified them as not fit for the breake I have.
So now considering bidding for the ones fro first link. And buying set of new stanchions...
Hello,
Was so focused on front fork that totally forgotten to check front spindle axel.
Turns out the thread is ruined.
I have bought sliders and stanchions...
Waiting for the bush returned to supplier.
Now need to search for spindle
Not nice.
Left hand thread, of course.
I bought a new stainless one from Barleycorn for my scrambler 7" wheel.
I have a rough and ready spare that would work, but not pretty! Presume you have the split collet spacer for left side?
Hello Neil,
Indeed you help me not to loose hope.
Yes is have seen the Barleycorn the only reasonable price..
If I could reduce costs by getting cheaper one from you that would be great.
I have the split collet. What I mis is front spindle clamp bolt and bottom fork screws to fix the fender. i will take any rusty bolts and nuts which are 26tpi and might be of some use in BSA (this are Impossible to get in Poland).
....please let me know via privat message how we could arrange?
I've used this UK company for 26 tpi nuts and bolts for my '53 BSA:
http://www.nookysnuts.com/index.html (http://www.nookysnuts.com/index.html)
They say that overseas customers should email for a postage price. The nuts and bolts are good quality.
Another vote for Nooky although I'd be cautious about using them in any critical position.
Hello,
Many thanks for the link Rog!
This shall help me buying bag of lots and nuts mix shall be some solution for time being.
Turns out bolts holding my front fender/mudguard were metric or not the size. Since I've bought second hand sliders from Uk I have no bolts to fit fender.
Anyway all parts will come as a big package from my beloved bro.
I bet his is even more fed up wit that project than me.
Anyway thanks a lot....
Hello, some good news today.
Faked agreed to take faulty braz bush and today my brother received replacement.
Neil made early Christmas gift and is sending me few bits as well to help with restoring/building front forks.
Will be off the garage for one week which shall give me some distance
Drama!
Off for a vacation. And we have flood situation in Poland.
I hope my father in law can take BSA to the first floor of my house.
There's high risk that in two days whole village will be floating...
...not much I can do about it even if I decide to fly back
:o :-\ :'(
He managed to take BSA from garage to the living room.
Around half a meter higher.
My beloved daughter feeling sorry for the bike wrapped engine with stretch....won't help much but how lovely.
So guys keep your fingers crossed 🤞 so the water stays in the river.
By Friday I shall know how it all ended.
Wrapped like a candy 🍭
Best of luck - what a stressful situation. I sincerely hope it works out ok for you and your family.
Many thanks for the support!
We are safe, kids are safe no life thereat. This is most important.
Deep inside of me have a feeling that all that stuff was taken upstairs in vain.
I have already made planes to go for Oldtimerbazzar in Wrocław on Sunday.
Hi,
Friday it is! Embankments hold the water.
The pick of the wave is behind us. Water have no chance to get in on top of the embankments anymore.
Too early to unwrap the "candy" and bring the stuff downstairs.
The wave is high and very long. It will take around 2 days more before water level starts dropping.
Village is not accesible because smaller river flooded access roads. That shall change in one to two days. Rather normal in this situation aand brings no thread.
All signs indicate this B33 project will pick-up from where I have left.
Will let you know when the wave is gone
And this is the wave currently in numbers
Hello,
I'm back home since Saturday.
We are safe! Water still high but risk of flooding is not that big.
Water level is gradually dropping.
BSA is bac to the workshop.
Thanks for supporting!
Excellent news!
Small update:
Most of the parts I need (at least the ones so far determined)wait I UK for shipment. Some to be delivered still to my brother from Dragonfly.
I have run my bike on idle after rebuild (that was recommendation from guy who made my cylinder and piston).
Yesterday I have checked the sump plate drain plug(magnetic).
Pictures bellow. Oil is very clear as most of the metal dust is attracted by magnetically by plug.
Electricity!
At some point I will be forced to face it!
I have positive earth setup. All that has to go and be rebuilded.
Now at this stage I'm considering to make it negative earth.
My electromechanical regulator does nothing so have to replace it anyway. If I make negative earth installation then all LED bulbs would work . I will make wiring myself rather than buying new harness.
Any downside to that concept except ?
How about Dynamo in that case?
Dynamo is positive earth as well. At least this is what multimeter shows.
My M33 has (or had until the regulator went out of adjustment and blew some!) LED bulbs throughout, and it is positive earth. Either way you'll probably have to specify whether you want positive or negative earth bulbs when you buy them. I'm going for an electronic regulator, the type that fits inside the old mechanical regulator box.
This company sells most of the things you'll need for a rewire: https://www.vehiclewiringproducts.co.uk (https://www.vehiclewiringproducts.co.uk) If you are going to use crimp on terminals, use the crimping tool for reliability though they say these terminals can also be soldered on.
You can wire most of the bike in 1 square mm cable, but certain wires are better being 2 square mm:
1) Battery to ammeter.
2) Ammeter to regulator terminal 'A'.
3) Battery to frame earth point.
4) Plus, if you choose to have an earth wire instead of using the frame, battery to headlamp.
Connect the battery with the negative terminal to earth ie the free attach a wire to the field wire on the dynamo and flash the wire against the positive ie live terminal o the battery this will repolarise the dynamo to negative earth. If your mechanical regulator still works just connected back up. Regulator will work either way.
Hello,
Many thanks for the instructions
Especially with wires dimensions.
I will likely buy cables and all need endings here.
Will stay with positive earth.
Will buy this DVR2 P regulator. Please if any of you knows better regulator make recommendation.
How abou battery casing?
This are Impossible to get here or are all very expensive If come from old Bosh batteries fro 50s.
Any particular type works for you guys?
I have seen two gel 6v batteries connected to a parallel cluster, which case supports that?
I have a Motobatt MBT 6N6 AGM type battery for my M33. It works well and cost around £20-25 plus delivery. I suppose you could get two gel batteries linked in parallel, but at this price why bother? Of course my battery fits inside my dummy battery case, so you would have to check dimensions. My dummy battery case came with the bike, but they are fairly easy to find here in England.
Thanks for sharing that hint Rog!
I will buy this rubber Lucas replica battery case and will see what I could get here in terms of battery.
Trying to resurrect old Lucas horn. I'm missing this securing bolt.
Anyone knows the size? See the picture
Front of the horn for reference
It makes sound now! Yupi!
Is that some 1/2" 26tpi thread?
Fail! Dynamo stopped working.
I have no idea why?
I have noticed it was not straight forward setup.
See the picture. Someone have added separation brushes. Otherwise commutator is grounded. 0ohms between commutator and ground.
Then with separators tis is not the case and checked all the sections of armature. Same for adjustment sections resistance at 1.4 ohm . 180deg test reading 1.6ohm .
Other hints what to measure before I buy some refurbished from UK?
On the cover I see arrow clockwise. Clearly remember it produced voltage only when running anti-clockwise.
You need to post a pic of how your wires are hooked up
Decide +ve or negative earth
You can reverse polarity by flashing it as needed
Field wire i. The left is connected to F connector on bakelite cap.
Same side brush is connected to D connector.
Black wire on the right side coming from inside dynamo and right brush are connected to the ground.
Positive earth.
I gave checked with multimeter when it was working.
You'll need to see if it's the dynamo or something else.
The Haynes manual says that to check the dynamo, connect the F and D terminals (connectors) together at the dynamo and attach the negative probe of a voltmeter to them. Attach the positive probe to the dynamo casing and start the bike. You should get 7-8 volts at a fast tickover if the dynamo's okay. Don't rev the engine as the voltage is unregulated and you could damage the dynamo.
The manual also says to check the dynamo armature is spinning; a loose driving pinion can give the impression of a faulty dynamo. Clockwise is the correct direction; had the dynamo been working up to now, while on the engine?
Is been workin on the bike.
6v bulb alight connected as you described.
Multimeter reading was right as well. Suddenly it stopped working.
Dynamo spins anti-clockwise. (Points spin clockwise).
Might be the case for rewinding
Quote from: Dan_B33 on 04 Oct, 2024, 11:49
Dynamo spins anti-clockwise. (Points spin clockwise).
Might be the case for rewinding
Of course it does; my mistake!
Regarding the bulb and multimeter, do you mean you did the tests I described?
Hello Róg,
Yes when it worked I did that test.
I know it is not working since I have tried to repeat it.
With multimeter test when I swapped the cables and connect plus to F and reading gave" -" before number.
Now I get no reading and no light in the bulb.
Other questions about refub. Dynos: P.DUNN DYNAMOS
Any good experience with that?
Hello,
Current status with Dynamo.
I have stripped it couple of times to double check and triple check.
Measured all armature looks intact.
Flashed it with 12V battery to positive earth.
Now it gives some output....up to 7V on highest (drill) rpm. Not satisfied with that since on lower rpm it is fat bellow 6V.
Looking for some dynamos on eBay.
Question is if I buy clockwise Dynamo can it produce current running counterclocwise? Shall I jus swap field coil terminals?
Don't forget that when it's installed the dynamo runs at higher rpm than the magneto; looking at parts diagrams and number of gear teeth it runs at 58 teeth/22 teeth or 2.64 times magneto speed. The magneto runs at half engine speed so the dynamo is running at 1.32 times engine speed.
Now divide the fastest speed your drill runs at by 1.32; what do you get? That's the equivalent engine speed. Of course dynamos are all pretty poor at low speeds, too.
I agree with Rog1 - I spent ages trying to track down a "fault" on a dynamo just because the drill didn't turn it fast enough and I was getting the same low voltage. Once installed it was fine.
Thanks for all replies.
I have run it as a motor for 2 minutes with same 12V battery I used for flashing.
Now at highest rpm produces up to 9.2V
Shall be fine with DVR2P...
Quote from: Dan_B33 on 11 Oct, 2024, 13:50 Thanks for all replies.
I have run it as a motor for 2 minutes with same 12V battery I used for flashing.
Now at highest rpm produces up to 9.2V
Shall be fine with DVR2P...
Excellent news.
Dan,
I think you might find that with the wires joined together, and a normal electric drill running at 3000 rpm, it should be producing a good deal more than 9.2 volts. We shall see.
I have had good experience with Dynamo Dunn BSc (Hons).
The Rucas rubber battery cases are rather nasty, and collapse when the strap is tightened.
I don't think the average cordless drill will get anywhere near 3000 rpm- 1200 or so is more likely.
If you do decide you need it to be looked at then Paul Cooper sorted one out for me but I'm not sure if he's still working.
Well, I have 2 Black & Decker corded drills, both of which show a maximum no load speed of 3000rpm. So it would seem that a cordless drill is not suitable for testing dynamo output.
In my experience, using these corded drills, the dynamo output is way above 9V, and will easily blow a 40W bulb, although the load will bring the rpm down considerably.
Just my experience. Perhaps Dan is using a cordless drill?
Quote from: Steve.S on 12 Oct, 2024, 16:48 Well, I have 2 Black & Decker corded drills, both of which show a maximum no load speed of 3000rpm. So it would seem that a cordless drill is not suitable for testing dynamo output.
In my experience, using these corded drills, the dynamo output is way above 9V, and will easily blow a 40W bulb, although the load will bring the rpm down considerably.
Just my experience. Perhaps Dan is using a cordless drill?
Hello,
Yes I'm using cordless 20V drill.
Terminal F and D were coonected and this was showing at highest rpm 9.2V.
I have checked drill specification.
Max RPM is 2000 so this top 9.2Vs were created at around that speed.
I have changed bearings and brushes+ cleaned commutator a bit (space between sections with "saw" and surface with steel wool).
For now it shall do.
Now waiting for other bits to be shipped to my brother. Then all comes to me and I could move forward.
Waiting for that I will start building electric ⚡ circuits.
Hello,
Package from UK arrived!
@Neil thanks for parts !
I can start finalize front forks
Front spindle (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1X5rH-q426hK96xf8qnKK-A3zC-xx9uRR/view?usp=drivesdk)
I have to rework this front spindle.
Shall I go and adjust for the bush? Like orginal?
Shall I make it without bush? That shall still fit front slider.
Yep I suggest you machine it to suit the split bush as standard.
Hello,
That was the instructions I gave to my son.
I shall have it machined and ready tonight.
Good to have kids !
Front spindle remade (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZV5F32M5p8v5d7JbKmct6vvGVDO5ewEQ/view?usp=drivesdk)
Front spindle is ready.
I have repainted sliders .
Braz bushes are trimmed to the slider and all moves nicely.
I have new seals seated and one spring fro Neil which is nice other one has to come from the pair I had.
Soon I shall be able to have first ride.
Quote from: Dan_B33 on 28 Oct, 2024, 16:57 Soon I shall be able to have first ride.
Excellent!
Yesterday assembled one fork leg and installed in the bike (no puller).Looks promising.
When I get it on wheels will be easier to setup timing.
Will have almost 2 weeks off but November shall be first ride.
Dan
Quote from: Steve.S on 04 Aug, 2024, 17:47 My dear Fellow,
As I suggested in a previous post, your half time pinion is shagged out. Also, from the photo, there is insufficient clearance between the inlet pinion and the idler pinion. You seem not to be concerned about this.
Does anyone else agree?
At this point I have to thank to Steve. You are ⭐! I have replaced half time pinion with second hand good condition.
I have replaced key and half time wheel as well.
At first hearing (just kicking) I do not have that clicking noise anymore .
To be confirmed when I start machine again.
Could have listened to that advice sooner...thanks again Steve .
Very glad to be of help. You're doing a fine job, made more difficult by having to source parts from overseas. I admire your perseverance.
Make sure there is a very small amount of clearance between the teeth of the inlet cam and the idler gear. If there is no movement, you need to investigate further.
Powodzenia.
Hello,
I'm back in the game ( been off for almost 2 weeks).
I set ignition timing yesterday. Not overthinking it too much. Motorcycle started second kick.
Huge difference! No noise from timing gears nor from pushrods! Feels good 👍.
Now will close primary chain cover using cork gasket. Shall I smear one side with some sealant?
Quote from: Dan_B33 on 13 Nov, 2024, 08:46 Hello,
I'm back in the game ( been off for almost 2 weeks).
I set ignition timing yesterday. Not overthinking it too much. Motorcycle started second kick.
Huge difference! No noise from timing gears nor from pushrods! Feels good 👍.
Now will close primary chain cover using cork gasket. Shall I smear one side with some sealant?
This all sounds very promising! Like Steve S. I admire your perserverence. Please post some photos of the bike when it's all finished and back on the road; I'd love to see it, and I'm sure that all the other bods who have commented on this epic tale would like to see it too.
Sealant isn't really needed, but it does help installation if the gasket is stuck to the cover with something; you could even use a little grease. I poke three or four cover screws through the cover and gasket before I offer it up; this helps to keep the gasket properly located.
Good hint Rog!
I will take that advice.
I will try to make some video or ask my son to make one for his Instagram and will share the link.
It won't be that soon as he got girlfriend and leaving independently hard to get him home this days.
Short term plan for BSA:
- sort it primary chain case(put oil)
- install tank
- get the first ride
Long term (before next summer):
- sort out wheels (might need new spokes)
- new tyres
- make new electric installation (DVR2P already at home)
-prepare all for registration as Veteran
- ride into the setting sun
Grease the cork gasket and don't over tighten the chain case screws, just nipped up.
Small amount of oil so the primary chain just touches it when kicked over.
Mine is completely oil tight after following those rules.
Hello,
Some news today.
I have taken BSA for a first ride.
Clutch works fine .
All gears engage no problem.
Advance system ok with timing. Easy start.
Suspension finally works as designed.
Some failure!
Piston is catching after 10-15 minutes ride.
I think piston is too tight...or the materials used for it's production are wrong.
Few minutes for cooling and all goes again ok for couple of minutes.
Need to take camera to check the inside of a barrel....or strip it again.
Need to call the guy who made barrel and piston for me...
Quote from: Dan_B33 on 16 Nov, 2024, 16:30 Hello,
Some news today.
I have taken BSA for a first ride.
Clutch works fine .
All gears engage no problem.
Advance system ok with timing. Easy start.
Suspension finally works as designed.
Some failure!
Piston is catching after 10-15 minutes ride.
I think piston is too tight...or the materials used for it's production are wrong.
Few minutes for cooling and all goes again ok for couple of minutes.
Need to take camera to check the inside of a barrel....or strip it again.
Need to call the guy who made barrel and piston for me...
I had similar issue with an Italian `Gandini' piston (can't remember if B31 or B33) IIRC I simply dressed the high spots off, glaze busted the bore and fitted new rings, seemed ok after that but memory is hazy and it was over 30 years ago when my main steeds were Triumph Daytona 500s!
Maybe not bored to correct clearance?
Looks like too tight fit. So if Im right that won't go away wit a time and taking off head and barrel again is needed.
Luckily it is before winter otherwise I would go mental.
My son promised to drop short video to his Instagram. I will share the link as soon as I have it.
Dan
There's always something when you are getting a project on the road, just when you think you've finished; as I found out this year.
There are two types of piston listed in BSA's piston clearances service sheet (No. 704) for the B33; the two types have very different clearances:
Non-split skirt: 0.0045" to 0.0065"
Split skirt: 0.0006" to 0.00275"
So which type of piston is it, and what clearance was the cylinder bored to? I had to research this in June last year, when I had my M33 rebored to +40 thou.
There's also the piston ring end gap, which should be 0.010", says service sheet 701. I got the firm that rebored the cylinder to check and is needed adjust the end gap.
Modern pidston clearances are far too tight for old air cooled engines, and many engineering shops do not understand this. Some years ago I rebuilt a 1930s Sunbeam which the previous owner had rebored and I had exactly the same problem as you.
I had an old school reconditioning workshop take another couple of thou out and it was fine.
I always err on the side of more rtaher than less clearance as few of us are going to wear out rebuilt engines.
Thanks Ian.
I have called the guy.
He proposed solution:
1. Can send him barrel and piston hi will rebore to higher clearance.
2. Try to wear-in by short rides (perfect temperatures) if no joy after 20-30 hours send back for rebore.
Now thinking if I shall waste time trying to wear-in?
I had couple of short rides (2km) without stopage
I think you'd be better off removing the head and barrel so that you can make sure you know what's wrong. It is most probably too tight a bore but what if it is too small a piston ring end gap?
Also, 20 to 30 hours of riding is 800 to 1200 miles/1300 to 1,950 kilometres, at an average speed of 40mph/64kph. How long would that take you, in short rides?
Send him the barrel and piston.
Hello,
Many thanks for advising.
I will likely send it back.
For last 3 days I jus enjoyed short 2-3km rides. Just to award myself.
I have reanimated old installation and I have lights (12V bulbs and dead battery).
Dynamo works perfectly but no light on low rpm which is normal with battery flat.
I will enjoy few more rides and start strippin top end.
I will get there finally some day with all working....not yet though - no drama
Here is link to the link of my son's Instagram. He has made short video:
BSA B33 Dan first ride (https://www.instagram.com/reel/DCpW-R_xjRw/?igsh=Nzd5cjQ2ZXkybzdu)
Great to see the complete bike, and in action too. It starts well and sounds good.
Must admit I don't like the idea of re-boring the cylinder to take 1 or 2 thou off. This is practically impossible to set up. You would be better off polishing 1 thou off each skirt of the piston, with some 1000 grit paper.
Most pistons have different diameters on them. The gudgeon pin sides can be less diameter, or even flat, and the area above the rings is usually a couple of thou less than the skirts.
Remember it is the rings that do the sealing, not the piston skirt.
Hello ,
I will have look inside and decide what to do next. Many thanks for that advice.
I will remove this home made carrier at the back.
We're there BSA made carriers ?
As per sci-fi above is what I did (a more impecunious time for me) and it seemed to work in a low tuned motor doing low miles. Cleaned the piston up (high spots off with fine file and then fine carburundum/wet/dry type paper always following correct profile wrapped around the file) and correctly gapped rings. Of course it will depend on bore finish etc too.
A decent machine shop can easily take one or two thou off using a hone. Not one of those hand-held things but a proper one.
Small update.
Since I have the motorcycle in one piece I have started applying for legalization of it.
Will do MOT this week and then I could strip it agai
Quote from: Rog1 on 16 Nov, 2024, 21:50 There's always something when you are getting a project on the road, just when you think you've finished; as I found out this year.
There are two types of piston listed in BSA's piston clearances service sheet (No. 704) for the B33; the two types have very different clearances:
Non-split skirt: 0.0045" to 0.0065"
Split skirt: 0.0006" to 0.00275"
So which type of piston is it, and what clearance was the cylinder bored to? I had to research this in June last year, when I had my M33 rebored to +40 thou.
There's also the piston ring end gap, which should be 0.010", says service sheet 701. I got the firm that rebored the cylinder to check and is needed adjust the end gap.
Hi Roger , when you rebore a motor the new bore size is, standard bore size plus the over size and sometimes you can add an extra one thou when honing , the piston is cam ground to provide the necessary clearance , also to add more clearance it is only necessary to put the barrel back on the cylinder hone . No one will try to remove .001" or .002" with the boring bar because you need .0025 to hone to remove tool marks . Cheers .
Thanks All,
This is comprehensive explanation.
I have not removed head yet.
Turned out I need to wait for the paper from certified specialist before Im allowed to make MOT. Papers under preparation.
I have tried to fit new central stand spring (from Dragonfly). Failed to extend it with thick coins an washers (not long enough even I stuck to whole available slots).
Any suggestions? How to fit central stand spring. Do not say zip ties cuts as that is far too thin to extend to the sizes need.
I use a stout round body screwdriver through open spring and lever against convenient bit of frame/gearbox.
When you are lined up you slide the spring along the screwdriver to its lug and use another screwdriver to slide it onto the lug. It takes three or four attempts but the neither the wash/coin method (they kept falling out) nor the zip tie methods worked for me.
Did it couple of weeks ago on my off roader. It was a pattern stand with poorly drilled holes and it sat low on the stops in the raised position. So line bored out the 'in between' hole sizes and fitted new custom tube then serial adjustments to the stops so that the stand is up parallel with frame. Long way of saying beware of new Indian supplied hardware unless you are prepared to do some serious fettling (I had to pay local co to do the accurate line boring. I'll post pics of the 'finished' machine on the Britbike Goldstar thread.
I had to put a centre stand spring on recently, though not on a BSA, and reached for my spring pulling tool. After all, it makes getting the kickstart return spring on pretty easy. But there's not enough room to use it; some bit of bike, or the ground, just gets in the way. So just like neil1964, I used screwdrivers.
Hello Róg and Neil,
Many thanks for hints!
Small win today is I have managed to fit central stand spring.
Hint with using second screwdriver to drive spring loop down the levered screwdriver 🪛 was a hit!
I have made almost 50km today illegally - Rebel!
All with stop for 5-10min stops to check if overheating.
Looks promising...but still will strip the head just after MOT
Hello,
Smak update.
Conserver of mechanical monuments in my county registered BSA int the database.
Now I can finalize the papers and move on to sort out and prepare BSA to the season
Excellent.
Quote from: Dan_B33 on 20 Dec, 2024, 09:09 Hello,
Smak update.
Conserver of mechanical monuments in my county registered BSA int the database.
Now I can finalize the papers and move on to sort out and prepare BSA to the season
Excellent news, Merry Christmas too!
Merry Christmas!!!
Not yet removed the head or cylinder barrel. If all goes well Monday will be the MOT day. There is far more formalities than I have initially expected.
That will be almost last step before getting number plates (yellow).
Till then I do some illegal trips (10-20km). I usually get very cold and my wife calls me old stupid man. Still worth the prise!
So for the Christmas gift I will try to take short spin.
Take care ALL!! Enjoy the time .
Dan
Quote from: Dan_B33 on 21 Dec, 2024, 20:21 Merry Christmas!!!
Not yet removed the head or cylinder barrel. If all goes well Monday will be the MOT day. There is far more formalities than I have initially expected.
That will be almost last step before getting number plates (yellow).
Till then I do some illegal trips (10-20km). I usually get very cold and my wife calls me old stupid man. Still worth the prise!
So for the Christmas gift I will try to take short spin.
Take care ALL!! Enjoy the time .
Dan
Great Christmas gift to yourself.
👍 😁 😁 😁
Hello,
Happy New year to all of you!
Some news:
- BSA is officially registered with yellow numberplate as historical vintage motorcycle
- now I'm trying to fit new wheels bearings (fron wheel first)
- I have put around 100miles
- not yet removed barrel
Have good one
Crackling my heat over how the front wheel hub is constructed
Front wheel figured out need to buy bearings. Need to adjust the rim has side play.
What are the spokes sizes ?
I have measured about 22mm front
19mm rear wheel. Is that right?
I would be after some old stock used spokes in case any of current is damaged beyond usage Or cracks during adjustment.
Anyone would like to get rid of some ?
Dan
Small correction this were centimetres
I have measured about 22cm front
19cm rear wheel. Is that right?
Hello,
Can anyone help me?
Rear wheel right side bearing is guarded by the metal plate.
How to remove without damage?
How the guarding plate is removed?
Cheers
Dan
Hi Dan
If you mean the pressed steel disc on the right side of the hub then you simply pull is off, with a gentle twist.
I do not understand the measurements regarding the wheels?
Your front wheel hub would be the one in the Draganfly diagrams:
(https://draganfly.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/content/3.gif)
You disassemble by removing the lock nut that you see in the brake side of the hub and the lock nut on the other side then using hide or copper mallet drift use the spacer to drift the bearings out.
This is the rear wheel:
(https://draganfly.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/content/11_3nd.gif)
Both front wheel bearings are 65-5883 as are two of the rear bearings RSL9, I would use single seals on the outside bearings but still pack the hubs as usual with grease.
I am not sure what the third bearing would be in your particular wheel as the s/a and plunger are (I believe) different.
Thanks Neil!
Never mind the spokes I have figured out.
Thanks for the hint bu looks like this pressed metal steal disk is stuck...need to figure out something.
Bearings I have ordered and planned as you have suggested. Keeping sealed outside .
I find this dragonfly diagrams very helpful. Somehow it works for me only on PC. Web is not working on my mobile after new year.
I will keep you posted abou progress
pressed metal steal stuck... can't rotate it and cant remove
Quote from: Dan_B33 on 23 Jan, 2025, 09:48 pressed metal steal stuck... can't rotate it and cant remove
Do you have an oil filter strap wrench (woven or leather type) to budge it?
I have with metal strap. Need to buy bigger though
I have used big oil filter spanner. Managed only remove steel plate. Coral left unmoved. All behind metal plate is covered with some brown dried anty corrosion thing.
Now I have to try to remove as much as possible and use heat to remove coral ...then fix it to the plate for the refit.
Managed to get it out with help of a heat gun
Quote from: Dan_B33 on 21 Jan, 2025, 10:33 Hello,
Can anyone help me?
Rear wheel right side bearing is guarded by the metal plate.
How to remove without damage?
How the guarding plate is removed?
Cheers These are very tight usually and do take some effort to shift, I have deformed many trying to remove as the middle bit is where it's fixed to sometimes gets rust between, if you are able try to get some lever in the centre when the axle is out.
Dan
Hello!
Some progress here.
Wheels are back. New tyres (Mitas to the spec), new bearings, aligned and balanced.
I had some ride today. About 20 miles all feels good.
Will start making new wiring loom soon
Excellent.
Hello, back to sqare one!
Cylinder and piston was not machined property! Posting pictures is not straight forward now to me...so will pas on it.
Yet another time I wish to put Bullet through the heart of my beloved BSA....this time that would be unfair .I could only blame the guy who took the money (good money) and left me with this mess.
Net to think now how to go from here...
That's not good. What exactly have they done wrong?
Oh dear
What is wrong?
Hello,
I think that the piston fitting was too tight.
I have called them last Friday. Will sen the piston and cylinder back. They have agreed to fix it.
I hope this will be working fine afterwards.
Dan
That doesn't sound so bad. But when it comes back it would be a good idea to check that the clearance is now correct, before reassembly. Check the ring gaps too.
I hope that they will treat this job as high priority and get it back to you quickly.
Do you know what make/ brand piston is fitted ,as there are some pistons on market that require a lot more piston to bore clearance , if possible ask what clearance they are setting at , regards Roy
Most engine reconditioners are used to modern water cooled engines which run much closer clearances than our elderly air cooled bikes. If I'm having a rebore - which I try to avoid - I generally ask for a couple of thou over the book clearance, as I'm too old to spend the rest of my life running it in, and by the same token am unlikely to do hundreds of thousands of milse!
Hello,
The company which done the job is dedicated to the vintage cars and motorcycles.
I would expect they know what they are doing.
When it comes to the brand I suspect it is Gaudini....or something like that.
I will measure the clearances...
Owner of the company is kind of a arrogant bloke who doesn't give a damn. This makes it a bit harder.
I use the time now to make other things on the bike like:
Wiring
Fitting DVR2 regulator
Sporting out oil feed pipe to the head (it was fitter with rubber clear inspection temporary solution by previous owner)
This goes slow así decided to move from village to the town....so buying apartment an selling the house....lots of things going on.
Still BSA will be on the road this season I'm sure.
Some parts still ariving to my bro in Preston.
Take care and thanks for previous advises
What size piston are you on?
Hello Neil,
I will tell you when it comes back to me.
I think it will be irrelevant to give any measurements from before.
Dan
Hello,
Piston company called me today.
They of course take no blame.
However the have removed high spots and honed the cylinder.
When I have it back will make measurements to get you opinion.
Will start searching for possibility to fit some good quality piston to what I have in cylinder.
Looks like tis season will be on W650 rather than BSA.
Who knows?
By the way they say the fit for cylinder piston is 0.1mm which is standard for air cooled engines.
Will se to the measurements
That's about .004" which I would say is on the tight side for a B33.
There are solid vs slipper types of skirt requiring different tolerances.
It will be interesting to know which type you have in your iron barrel.
I would be inclined to accept a touch of piston slap when cold vs nipping up.
Quote from: neil1964 on 11 Apr, 2025, 11:08 I would be inclined to accept a touch of piston slap when cold vs nipping up.
Always my attitude too. Plus it means, with the limited mileage I do these days, that I don't have to spend months running in. As long as it's not smoking too much / fouling plugs I'm happy.
Quote from: iansoady on 11 Apr, 2025, 09:55 That's about .004" which I would say is on the tight side for a B33.
I agree.. BSA Service Sheet 701 states 0.0045 to 0.0065" for the B33 plus 0.010" for ring gaps.
Good read as always.
I will give a call to them tomorrow to check if it is already on portage.
When you say we start 0.0045" what would be your recommendation? 0.005"?
Dan
As others have stated Dan, you're better to have some piston slap when cold than to have the clearance too tight, so it is up to you what to use.
If BSA state .0045" to .0065" then I would go for .005"
Thanks Derek for straight reply.
Problem in here (Poland) is whoever I'm asking they sate 0.1mm (0.004") like mantra for all aur cooled engines.
I Wii go for 0.005" if possible.
Yesterday printed petrol tank inside wit special paint.
Started with installation as well
Quote from: Dan_B33 on 13 Apr, 2025, 17:39 Thanks Derek for straight reply.
Problem in here (Poland) is whoever I'm asking they sate 0.1mm (0.004") like mantra for all aur cooled engines.
I Wii go for 0.005" if possible.
Yesterday printed petrol tank inside wit special paint.
Started with installation as well
0.005" = 0.127 mm. Surely they can bore to give a 0.125 mm clearance which is was near as make no difference or a clearance of 0.15 mm is .006". Either of these should be ok.
I always struggled with metric / imperial conversions till I realised that 1mm = .040" (or near enough, at least for my purposes).
I think I will go for 0.006".
This shall do.
0.005 might be still too tight.
Won't take risk. I would like to start riding it without problems from piston side.
Dan
Hello,
The company finally made their homework and expressed their apology.
Unfortunately I had to send the set to them again.
Reference to the BSA manual wit a page number was of a great use.
Now waiting they will to it properly and send it back.
Many thanks for your help !
Dan
Happy Easter to All!
While waiting for barrel and piston I'm re-wiring my electric installation.
I will stay with positive earth since I bough DVR2 regulator for that setup. For now will connect for 12V. I heard that shall work with original dynamo.
All wires done in head lamp and deep switch, horn button.
Now move to dynamo regulator and back light.
Shall be ready before other parts arrive.
I have ordered as well deeper inner clutch
basket . Currently I have just 4 plates. This will host 5 as it should be.
Some other small bits as well will arrive soon from UK (Ester time was hard to get my parcel send -no room)
High spirit to have it all put back together and have it working properly this time.
Take Care
Dan
Good stuff - I hope all goes well.
Quote from: Dan_B33 on 18 Apr, 2025, 10:00 Happy Easter to All!
While waiting for barrel and piston I'm re-wiring my electric installation.
I will stay with positive earth since I bough DVR2 regulator for that setup. For now will connect for 12V. I heard that shall work with original dynamo.
All wires done in head lamp and deep switch, horn button.
Now move to dynamo regulator and back light.
Shall be ready before other parts arrive.
I have ordered as well deeper inner clutch
basket . Currently I have just 4 plates. This will host 5 as it should be.
Some other small bits as well will arrive soon from UK (Ester time was hard to get my parcel send -no room)
High spirit to have it all put back together and have it working properly this time.
Take Care
Dan
Who have you bought the clutch basket from?
If it is Draganfly I would get a friend to add a couple of extra welds between the supporting ring and the fingers.
When I removed mine to fit the NEB clutch the ring was loose - the spot welds had failed. I've still got it and if I had to I could still use it, but drill and puddle weld each tongue to the band vs spot welds.
My B31 came with the shallower clutch and it seemed to work well within the power contraints. Asking it to cope with a ZB34GS engine was tricky and a DBD34 600 was right out!
The deeper 5 plate clutch on the ZB is quite sweet and seems to be working well (so far!)
Just for information. The B31 originally had 3 clutch plates. The B32, B33, B34 and ZB Gold Star models had 4 plates. The CB, DB and DBD Gold Stars and A7 and A10 models all used 5 plates. For 1958 when the B31 and B33 changed to alternator with a 4 spring clutch they both used 5 plates.
I would think Dan that your bike would originally have used a 4 plate clutch but it certainly won't do any harm to fit a 5 plate one.
Hello Neil and Derek,
My basket comes from Fairdeals2017.
I guess it will be quality of the one from Dragonfly or worse.
With that knowledge that 4 plates is how it shall be I will think twice before doing any change.
Many thanks for your assistance it's of a great value to me.
Take care...
"Smacznego jajka" - it's a food(egg🥚)related polish wish for Ester.
Dan
Happy Easter to you.
I bought a "Gold Star' rep centrestand from Fairdeals having missed a couple of genuine ones (same as s/a B31 and B33 for mid 50s).
The construction and material seem ok (it was for a 57 Competition frame) but the holes were odd size and in between the size of just the through bolt (very sloppy) and the sleeve that should fit between the stand tube and the bolt.
I had it bored to size and spent a couple of hours dressing the stops with files (how I know it is decent metal!) to ensure it fitted to clear the chain and did not sag below horizontal to ensure 'off road' ground clearance.
(https://i.imgur.com/hI8SAWe.jpeg)
Thanks Neil,
Looks like I will need to check thoroughly this clutch inner basket before fitting.
Motrcycle on the picture looks splendid!
Congratulations!
Cheers
Dan
Hello,
Some news from here:
- piston/cylinder/rings set ready clearance to the spec
- electric installation almost done
Shall be on the road next week
Dan
Quote from: Dan_B33 on 25 Apr, 2025, 11:13 Hello,
Some news from here:
- piston/cylinder/rings set ready clearance to the spec
- electric installation almost done
Shall be on the road next week
Dan
Great!
Quote from: Dan_B33 on 25 Apr, 2025, 11:13 Hello,
Some news from here:
- piston/cylinder/rings set ready clearance to the spec
- electric installation almost done
Shall be on the road next week
Dan
8)
Hello small update:
Cylinder returned with broken fin.
It was taken by my friend to weld .
Most likely no back till Sunday.
Not on the road yet
Was the fin broken by the "expert" machining shop?
Ian,
I'm not sure. Hard to prove . Either way it is his fault because of a insufficient packing.
Guess what? He doesn't feel responsible!
Fin is already welded with braz.
Luckily my friend was around to do it.
I have to lap cylinder head and put this back together.
Set valve clearance and timing.
Refill with new oil and ....start!
Fingers crossed 🤞
Dan
Hello,
Question.
Anyone has spare mounting bracket for a deeper switch (Lucas black bakelite) ?
The one type which goes mounted on clutch lever.
I have original switch in working order but mountings are to the handel bar.
Managed to buy clutch lever console from Netherlands. That would look nice especially left side brake console with horn is fitted and works nice.
Cheers
Dan
Quote from: Dan_B33 on 02 May, 2025, 09:46 Hello,
Question.
Anyone has spare mounting bracket for a deeper switch (Lucas black bakelite) ?
The one type which goes mounted on clutch lever.
I have original switch in working order but mountings are to the handel bar.
Managed to buy clutch lever console from Netherlands. That would look nice especially left side brake console with horn is fitted and works nice.
Cheers
Dan
A photo of what you have and what you want would be helpful. I have some spare horn, clutch and switch brackets around here. My road bike has chrome push screwed directly to clutch lever mounting. Off roader has same chrome switch/push on its own man bracket (and is actually more convenient than the one on the clutch (as a dip anyway)
Hello Neil,
https://www.feked.com/lucas-type-dip-switch-bakelight.html
This I have just original.
What I'm after is the metal strap which allows installation to clutch lever console.
Ps: I have put all together my engine and started bike today. Looks promising.
Will update on progress...
Good news on the starting.
Hello,
Some more news.
I did some short ride yesterday.
No issue with piston at all!
DVR2(P) works like charm! I have 12v battery and 6V dynamo. With RPM higher than 1500 rev/min I get 13v easily or 13.5V changing.
Now need to put on some miles on the clock and smile on my face.
Still waiting for small bits from UK hopefully they will leave my brother this Saturday.
The bike is far from perfect but at least mechanically in decent order.
I won't do any paint and finishing off work. I just love it how it is with dents and scratches.
Still too early to close the post.
I will try to make summary what was done on the bike.
Cheers
Dan
Great news Dan. 😀
Hi Dan.
I think you should change your signature, as you have been very well informed on this forum!
Indeed Ian,
This is fair! All you kept me motivated.
Without this forum and my brother Artur i would give up long time ago.
Many thanks and big aplause.
I still need some adjustments. Staring cold is easy. Warm is not the case.
Compression Ok
Spark OK
Valves clearance OK
Timing - need to recheck
This is however small issue .
For now slow rides 35mph to wear it in.
Dan
Quote from: Dan_B33 on 06 May, 2025, 09:15 Indeed Ian,
This is fair! All you kept me motivated.
Without this forum and my brother Artur i would give up long time ago.
Many thanks and big aplause.
I still need some adjustments. Staring cold is easy. Warm is not the case.
Compression Ok
Spark OK
Valves clearance OK
Timing - need to recheck
This is however small issue .
For now slow rides 35mph to wear it in.
Dan
Don't go too slowly as you will never run it in properly
Build your speed up and over 50-55 is fine but let it rev gently up to speed, certainly not slog in too high a gear and after a longish run at speed back off onto the over-run for a few seconds to draw the oil up and around.
Thanks Neil!
I will take your advise.
Problem with staring hot - solved.
Timing was off a bit too late.
And I retarded I too much with knob so it was not able too start.
Now it works.
Let's see how it goes...
Dan
Hello some parts arrived.
Is all beating 3/16 right for timing cover valve with spring 66-1684.
Asking because looks like till now this was not original and ball was bit bigger.
Dan
Hello,
Problem starting on Hot 🔥
Topic been on the forum couple of times.
No conclusion just some tips.
My BSA starts first kick on cold.
Starts first kick after run just after I stop and kick-start.
Leaving machine for some time like 5 minutes.
It won't start or staring only after 20 kicks.
I have checked for the timing settings all in line with serves manual. Same valve clearance. Compression on Hot engine is such you have to use decompressor.
Spark is bright same hot or cold.
Anything to do with carburator?
Dan
Possibly heat soak from the engine causing fuel in the carb to evaporate? Does the carb body feel hot when left for a few minutes? Do you have a tufnol insulator between the carb and head?
Many years ago I had a Norton 16H (500 side valve) which exhibited a similar problem. One day I was struggling with it when an older gent who was passing said "I used to ride them in the war (yes it was a long time ago) and we always found that flooding the carb would get it running". I tried that and it worked. The Norton had a clip type fitting for the carb rather than a flange so couldn't fit an insulator, which I have done to all my bikes ever since.
Or possibly heat soak from the engine affecting the magneto. I've had this problem in the past. The bike starts easily from cold and if it has just been stopped with a hot engine, but let it stand for a couple of minutes, like filling up petrol at a filling station, then it won't start, usually showing a weak spark. Sometimes having to wait up to 20 minutes until the magneto has cooled down enough! This probably due to the condenser in the mag being on its way out but I've had this on a "rebuilt" magneto.
Hello,
I have insulator about 3-4mm thick.
Carburator is warm but Magneto much hotter.
So I guess I need to make Brightspark condenser install it an see if that helps.
Dan
Installing the Brightspark condenser isn't so simple on an M01 magdyno. It requires dismantling the armature to remove the existing condenser. To do this the slip ring has to be removed to access the 2 long screws holding the armature together. You will need to pull the bearing inner from the shaft first.
You can find the complete procedure here.Condensectomy (https://library.brightsparkmagnetos.com/condensectomy/Condensectomy%20Booklet.pdf)
It's not too difficult, the only problem I had was getting the bearing off the shaft but fortunately a friend had a suitable puller. Be careful with the slip ring, they are easily broken - I know from experience :(
Thanks Derek!
I know the page. The specification is given there so it is easy to make DIY part.
I have no time to wait for postage and all needed parts (PBC board and capacitor) were shipped to me in the winter...I should have done it before putting magdyno into the bike.
No i have to go with the surgery on the armature.
Wish me luck.
Slip ring removal is one of my biggest fears together with the bearing sitting next to it.
Once you get the bearing off, that's the hard bit, warm the slip ring gently with a hot air gun then it should easily slip off.
Hello Derek, thanks for a hint.
Slip ring is now off and nothing damaged.
Shall I apply any sort of a glue/paste when I reinstall?
Quote from: Dan_B33 on 28 May, 2025, 11:27 Hello Derek, thanks for a hint.
Slip ring is now off and nothing damaged.
Shall I apply any sort of a glue/paste when I reinstall?
I didn't, it didn't need anything it was quite a firm fit and once the bearing is on it can't move anyway. I must say you don't waste any time 😃
Derek!!
I have Spark!!
Alignment of the armature was hard one!!
First test show bright spark! Some shocks receved by my body as well.
Need to put that all stuff all together and test ride it!
Dan
Quote from: Dan_B33 on 29 May, 2025, 18:17 Derek!!
I have Spark!!
Alignment of the armature was hard one!!
First test show bright spark! Some shocks receved by my body as well.
Need to put that all stuff all together and test ride it!
Dan
Excellent. Did you spin it up on a lathe to square it up?
Yes I visited my friend to square it.
I have to revisit him since I feel it is still a bit off.
The most important thing is it worked . And DIY bright spark works as well.
I'm in a process of moving from my house so hard to spare time.
I hope to be back on the road testng next week.
Dan
Quote from: Dan_B33 on 29 May, 2025, 18:17 Derek!!
I have Spark!!
Alignment of the armature was hard one!!
First test show bright spark! Some shocks receved by my body as well.
Need to put that all stuff all together and test ride it!
Dan
Great news Dan. I hope that sorts your hot starting problem.
Quote from: neil1964 on 29 May, 2025, 19:28 Excellent. Did you spin it up on a lathe to square it up?
I don't have a lathe so I scribed lines on the ends of the armature and the centre section and made sure they all lined up when I put it back together. I had no issues with this. Maybe I was just lucky.
Quote from: Derek996 on 30 May, 2025, 09:55 Quote from: neil1964 on 29 May, 2025, 19:28 Excellent. Did you spin it up on a lathe to square it up?
I don't have a lathe so I scribed lines on the ends of the armature and the centre section and made sure they all lined up when I put it back together. I had no issues with this. Maybe I was just lucky.
I think that if you are careful and sympathetic. I've got a box of MO1 mags in various states (incl some rewound bobbins). They all have stamps to help pairing.
I did have one that did not run true (grazed the magnet on rotation) but trued it up by tweaking the end cap/bobbin alignment tapping back and forth.
Hello, first testing done.
Spark looks better thou the problem is not gone.
Im happy since I have now capacitor outside.
Coul it be linked to carburator?
I have checked spark plugs after ride and it is nice brown. Indicating mixture is ok.
When warm it is easier to start with fully advanced ignition.
I have set ignition timing by book.
Shall I still set it more advanced?
My son has a 500cc Royal Enfield Big Head Bullet which has a similar problem. It has a very good Lucas SR1 rotating magnet magneto and these are not known for breaking down with heat soak. In his case I'm sure it's the carb setting. I've suggested richening the idle mixture by ¼ turn to see if it improves but he won't listen to me and it still suffers from poor hot starting.
On the Amal carbs screwing the mixture screw in reduces the air, making the mixture richer. If ¼ turn richer doesn't improve it try ¼ turn the other way making the mixture slightly leaner. Small differences to the pilot mixture can have a large effect on starting and if slightly too lean, pick up from a closed throttle.
Hello Derek,
Nice one! RE 500 with big head was one my dream.
I will take your advise.
I have Monoblock. I have already added some air by unscrewing.with that I was able to reach staring her with fully advanced ignition.
Will double check the timing with clock and with spoke.
Will keep in trying
hot starting is often not down to any actual problem , just the way the machine is re-started from hot.
a hot engine will continue to vaporise the remaining fuel in the carb - this generates a "cloud of gas and this cloud is sucked into the head at the 1st kick from hot.
this cloud saturates the plug and fouls it - preventing a start
so - when starting from hot - open the throttle a bit (experience will tell you how big a bit) and then kick it.
this slightly open throttle brings more air in with the cloud and allows a hot start
Thanks rhyatt,
I will experiment with that.
I guess addin 8mm separator pad between carb and head won't fix it? Any experience with that?
Dan
I always use a thermal insulator block between head and carburettor, 6mm or 1/4" is about right although you might need slightly longer studs to make sure you don't warp the flange (and body).
Presume you set your ignition static at TDC fully advanced and you are adjusted to get full excursion of the cam plate with your lever?
If your mag is slightly low on output you get a stronger spark at the 'flip-point' of the magnet-rotor which is typically where the spark is fully advanced.
Retarded setting is always weaker, hence better spark advanced.
If your armature is breaking down and partly shorting internally when truly hot this can manifest as weaker spark.
A weak magnet can do the same but hot or cold.
Presume your valve clearances are not too tight so are not slightly open when hot and are 3thou set as per BSA method (when I first got one of these I set both at TDC on firing stroke which was not truly correct).
Assuming correct advance (have you double checked it) has not slipped will just give you pinking!
Is this a typo? I'm not sure that a spark at TDC fully advanced is quite right.
Dan, you need to make sure your magneto spark will jump a gap of around 8mm. No good holding the HT lead with your hand, it will move all over the place. Buy a Spark gap tester or make one, and let us know how big a gap it will jump.
When it won't start when hot, use your tester to confirm a good spark and then move on to carburation, or technique, i.e throttle open or closed, choke on or off, advance or retard etc. But do fit an insulator.
I think Neil means to set the ignition with the advance/retard lever in the fully advanced position. I'm not sure that I've ever seen a magneto that will manage an 8mm spark gap, certainly not at kick over speed, but 5mm definitely. Coil igniton will give maximum spark at any speed but a magneto needs a bit more wheech.
Quote from: Steve.S on 11 Jun, 2025, 16:11 Is this a typo? I'm not sure that a spark at TDC fully advanced is quite right.
Dan, you need to make sure your magneto spark will jump a gap of around 8mm. No good holding the HT lead with your hand, it will move all over the place. Buy a Spark gap tester or make one, and let us know how big a gap it will jump.
When it won't start when hot, use your tester to confirm a good spark and then move on to carburation, or technique, i.e throttle open or closed, choke on or off, advance or retard etc. But do fit an insulator.
Sorry I meant at correct reading (7/16" BTDC) on firing stroke
Hello,
Valves clearnce: set to the book(good compression hot and cold- need to use decompressor or jump full body weight)
Magneto spark:
cold was easily jumping 6mm on the table with hand twist.
Hot- nice spark on plug but not tested without spark plugs -tbd.
Timing: rechecked and OK. Nice brownish spark plug after 5 miles ride
Carb / head separator to be changed.
Will keep you posted
Many thanks for all advised solutions
Dan
Ha have installed new separator Carburator/cylinder head.
First tests show promising results.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/10m4PTtAw1IZAEyuyjJjlkpzhHqloAHEB/view?usp=drivesdk
Now I have 8mm isolation.
Lets see how that works in real life.
I have seen big improvement already today.
Bus my skepticism tels me to hold the fanfares.
Da
Hello,
No win! Still the same.
Need to investigate deeper.
Spark is strong .
Idolator fitted
20 kills on Hot engine and spark is not flooded.
No start!
Cold start first kick.
So did you have to call breakdown recovery? Bad starting when hot can often be caused by technique. Did you try all the suggestions I made? Leave petrol off, on, throttle open, closed, 1/8 open, alter advance retard etc. etc.etc.
This is a very common problem, and I have the same problem myself, but I think, in my case it's down to technique. Unfortunately it alters every time. It's often due to a weak spark when hot. Did you have your magneto remagnetised? Maybe it's weak magnetism?
You really need to check the length of your spark when hot. Don't bother laying the plug on the head. This threw me once on another motorcycle, as I had a spark at the plug, but when I eventually got home, the magneto was only producing a spark 1/8" long.
Maybe try a different make of plug? What plug gap are you using?
I presume:
Non-suppressed plug cap
Non-resistor spark plug (what are you using)
Solid copper core HT cable with clean well made end with brass washer at the end that screws into the magneto
Spark plug gap of 18thou
Points gap of 12 thou
You have clean fresh fuel with clean filters (in the tank) and the carburettor is standard spec?
Tappets are set at 3 thou. The valve lifter is not 'ever so just' tightly adjusted such that it only binds kicks when engin hot?
Your idle mixture is set when the engine is properly warm (not when first started and by time fully warm is is too rich?
No more piston 'nipping up'?
What is the state of your magneto armature and magnet. I guess the insulation on the armature could be breaking down with high temperature?
After these suggestions (pretty sure that you will have covered them already?) I am out!
Quote from: neil1964 on 20 Jul, 2025, 23:18 I presume:
Non-suppressed plug cap- YES
Non-resistor spark plug (what are you using) YES
Solid copper core HT cable with clean well made end with brass washer at the end that screws into the magneto - YES
Spark plug gap of 18thou- YES
Points gap of 12 thou- YES
You have clean fresh fuel with clean filters (in the tank) and the carburettor is standard spec?- YES
Tappets are set at 3 thou. The valve lifter is not 'ever so just' tightly adjusted such that it only binds kicks when engin hot?
Your idle mixture is set when the engine is properly warm (not when first started and by time fully warm is is too rich?
No more piston 'nipping up'? - No More!
What is the state of your magneto armature and magnet. I guess the insulation on the armature could be breaking down with high temperature? Spark is strong alm the time even higher temperature
After these suggestions (pretty sure that you will have covered them already?) I am out!
I'm off almost all summer for vacations and work. Will be back next week to start investing. For now I jus enjoyed occasional ride of 10miles ....and back to garage.
More new soon
Only thing I cannot find in the thread is how the magneto was rebuilt.
Original Lucas paper condensers do deteriorate and the insulation breaks down leading to mag failure when hot (as does failing insulation on the internal coil.
Did you replace the condenser at time of rebuild. If not an easy fix is the Bright Spark surface mounted Easicap. You will need to strip the mag end cap to remove the old one.
Maybe you've already done that?
Hello Neil,
Yes that was done and spark is good at any time hot or cold.
My work recently keeps me away.
I take occasional rides on BSA starts first or second kick.
I hope winter will be more relaxed time to dig again deeper to the issue.
Anyway many thanks for the hint
Hello,
Long time no update.
I have fitted today my clutch with talker inner basket. I hah to reinforce inner ring since it was not holding ( as described by you guys). I have asked my friend to weld it.
Now it is perfect. I have added 5th Clutch plate.
Other updates is I have installed stop sensor (Lucas). I have stop light now.
I have installed one way valve on the breather. To maje sure it just exhales.
I have not determined yet root cause for difficult start on hot.
Cheers
Dan
Hello,
BSA makes miles.
My warm starting is a bit better after installing warmer spark plug with longer isolator.
This is in testing phase now.
I plan as well on installing pancake air filter. Any advice on tuning carb to that? Change the main jet?
Take it for a run with the filter first then look at the plug colour. If its OK leave it alone, if its showing rich drop the main jet by 10 and the needle jet one notch and check again. Hot starting, does it have the tufnol insulator between the carb and head?
Hello, long time no post.
Yes insulator is there.
I have not solved the problem completely.I have made 600km trip this weekend.
BSA bravely cruised 50-55mph.
Gave me no problem at all.
On warm it started usually 2 kick. If not then 10kicks on decompress and it eventually started.
I have installed air filter. Spark.plug looks okay. Slightly reach.
Will fine tune.
Overall bike is running. DVR2 provides good charging. Poland we have 24h lights on obligations.
Cheers
Dan