Hello all, I'm a new member to both the BSAOC and this forum, I joined both because I've been looking for a good '59-63 Super Rocket for a while now, I've seen a few now but I seem to be getting nowhere fast, so any advice on the two I'm currently looking at would be massively appreciated !.. I've always had postwar Nortons (and still do) and I'm used to easy matching frame and engine numbers so the BSA engine/Frame numbering system has been a bit of a 'steep learning curve' !.. I've done all the research I can on BSAs and Super Rockets in particular (My late Dad always hankered after a Super Rocket, partly why I'm looking for one..)
The first bike is registered 1961 on the V5c document but it has an EA7 frame number ('57-'58 ?..) with a DA10R engine (late '59-'60 onwards I think ?.. stamped 'HHC' below number) Am I right in thinking this is probably not a 'factory pairing' ?..
At this point I should mention that I'm not a 'matching-numbers' freak or a 'rivet-counter' or anything and I'm not buying as an investment, I am buying the bike to ride so I would like a solid, tidy genuine bike that is mechanically sound.. and I suppose a factory pairing could only be a good thing !..
Second bike is registered 1959 on the document with a GA7 frame and a DA10R engine, which would be OK I think ? but the frame number is a very low number GA7, three digits and only just over 100 (i.e.. GA7 ***) which might be correct for a late '59 bike ?.. But the DA10R engine number seems quite high, at 5 digits and numbered over 13000 (ie. DA10R *****) This bike has no 'HC' or HHC' letters stamped below the engine number (just a large 'F' stamped on the top of the L/H crankcase near the back of the barrels) Is this bike likely to be a non-factory' engine/frame pairing too ?..
I've looked at a good few Super Rockets now and this is the first I've seen with no 'HC' or HHC' stamping, could this be correct ? or is this a standard A10 engine with an alloy head fitted and an extra 'R' stamped onto the engine number ? (the number stamping does look OK and the 'R' is clearly the same size and font as the other letters.. but ?..)
Both bikes are private sales, both sets of engine and frame numbers match what is printed on their V5c and neither have any verification documentation from the BSAOC or any other source - I don't get my BSAOC new member pack until next week so I can't access any 'members only areas' and both owners are keen to seal the deal, so any and all advice and/or opinions would be VERY gratefully received !.. Very best wishes to all..
Ask the owners for some provenance of the bikes. Keen owners would probaly have a dating certificate for the bike.
EA7 frames are from 1956 and 1957 season. So would not match with a DA10R engine. DA10R prefix started for the 1960 season in August 1959 with GA7 prefix frame.
Low DA10R engine could match with a low GA7 frame.
A DA10R stamping in the 13 thousands is dodgy and probably just a DA10 engine where a previous owner has stamped in the "R" to make a fake rocket number, the highest factory stamped DA10R numbers were in the 10 thousands.
Hello Julian, thank you very much for replying to my first post and for the gratefully received advice ! - Neither owner has any provenance at all (apart from the V5c of course) but I find that a bit strange because one tells me their bike was 're-registered' in 1981 and thinks it was because of a change of frame.. I would have thought that legally this meant the original bike no longer existed ? - If so it would surely need a dating or verification letter from somewhere to get an age-related number.. The other bike definitely has an age-related number because it is an 'SK' number from the so called 'unused Scottish series' of registration numbers which was/is one of the series used for age-related registrations (I've got an AJS single with an 'SK' registration number which I know is age-related because I applied for it myself !..) but again the owner has no provenance for the bike..
For future reference, regarding the 'HC' and HHC' engine specification letters.. I can't seem to find an answer to the following question anywhere ! - Did any Super Rockets leave the factory without these codes/letters below the engine number ? - i.e.. was a Super Rocket option available from the BSA factory with an engine that DID NOT have High Compression pistons and DID NOT have the 'Hotter' cam ? - It seems a bit strange to me to order a brand new bike with a 'sporting' pedigree and not have the 'sporting' performance upgrades, unless there are instances where these were not stamped because what were formerly options had become standard Super Rocket engine spec ?..
Given that your knowledgeable and experienced advice seems to confirm my much less knowledgeable and inexperienced suspicions I think I might give both bikes a miss. Until next week when my membership pack hopefully arrives I am unable to get provenance on a Super Rocket myself so it might be wise to grit my teeth and wait for a Super Rocket to come available that already has better provenance.. As I said before, I'm not too worried about the bike being an original 'factory pairing' (although that would be good !) and in fact I already have two Classic bikes that aren't 'matching numbers' - but I would like to be as sure as possible that the engine and frame are genuine Super Rocket components, what I'm quite keen to avoid for obvious reasons is buying a 'Super Rocket' that is either a 'tarted-up' A10 Gold Flash or IS a genuine Super Rocket frame etc.. but has a Gold Flash engine (with an alloy head) fitted.. Anyway, I mustn't detain you any longer ! - Very best wishes and thanks again Julian, your input has been really helpful.. JJ
HC means high compression pistons. Found on Rockets but also on USA specification iron head engines with high comp pistons such as the A10 Royal Tourist and A7 Flash.
HHC means high comp pistons plus high lift cam. Seen on Super Flash and Road Rocket engines when it means the 356 cam and A10 Spitfire and later Super Rocket engines when it means the 357 Spitfire cam.
my view from the late 70 s and 80 s was that the hc was the most common stamp added as i remember 9/1 pistons were more commonly available then than 7/1 pistons and original dished pistons impossible to find oversize.
i remember seeing some lovely looked after a7 and a10 s from that period in the 80 s but not once did i stare at engine or frame numbers.