Just fitted a new speedo cable, went for a ride and found the drive has moved round took the cable off again and the whole thing moves around when the wheel turns.
What holds the drive in place?
Hi Chris,
It should be sandwiched between the distance piece and spacer on the wheel spindle. Item 26 and 25 on the image.
Best wishes...
It seems that I don't have an A65 swingarm on the bike, so not sure if wheel is A65 or not.
Mine really is a bitsa it seems.
The type of swinging arm fitted shouldn't matter nor should the type of wheel provided it is designed to mount the Smith's speedo drive. The first thing to establish is whether the wheel is actually firmly clamped between the swinging arm brackets with the correct spacers fitted to ensure this is the case. If not, the bike will not be in a safe condition to ride as the rear wheel could move in the frame.
Assuming the rear wheel is firmly clamped between the swinging arm brackets then, logically, the only way the speedo drive can rotate is if the hole in the centre of the drive is larger in diameter than the spacers either side of it. A picture of what's fitted on the RHS of the rear wheel would be helpful.
Hope this shows it ok.
The rear wheel looks to be correct for an A65 but the swinging arm (SA) definitely does not. The A65 SA has a fully enclosed slot for the rear wheel axle but this one has a slot that is open at the rear. It does have the adjuster fitted in front of the wheel axle as per A65 but it also appears to have a second adjuster fitted behind the axle that shouldn't be there and obviously isn't needed!
The rear wheel axle appears to have a rear mounted adjuster fitted on to it and also what looks like a large nut, neither of which should be there. I suspect the rear wheel is not being clamped properly to the SA at the moment making it a safety concern and this might explain why the speedo drive is rotating.
The SA may be ok to use but the rear adjuster and nut need to be removed and a proper arrangement of spacers needs to be set up. As a first step, it would be a good idea to remove the rear wheel and to measure the distance between the axle brackets on the SA so it can be compared with a standard A65 which should be 7 25/32". It would also be a good idea to measure the length of the rear wheel spindle so it can be compared with a standard A65 one which I believe is about 7.5" measured from where it butts up against the outside of the swinging arm.
It looks like a correct A65 swinging arm (which has had the rear loop ground out perhaps?), but with pre-OIF unit single spindle and adjusters which is complete overkill (Is it possible a unit single rear wheel purchased and PO thought he had to use the adjusters with spindle that came with it?). As has been said before, you need to make sure that the body of the speedo drive is clamped by the spindle which means have the correct spacer between it's inside wall and the spindle tube that acts as a bearing spacer between both hub bearings. Then have the correctly dimensioned spacer between the speedo drive outer wall and the swinging arm.
As said, the length of the wheel spindle needs to be measured as does the width of the swinging arm to work out what is actually fitted. As far as I can see, the A65 spindle looks to be 7 3/8" long whereas the unit single's spindle is only 7 1/8".
Sorry for not replying guys. I have been out all day. Hopefully will get to pull it apart tomorrow and take some measurements.
Just for reference, the B44 swinging arm fitted with a similar QD wheel is 5/16" narrower than that on the A65 and the outer spacer is lightly shorter at 0.7" to partially compensate. The A65 outer spacer is 0.875" in length.
Distance between swingarm is 7 7/8"
It looks like the spacer that is on inside of drive unit in your diagram should be outside the unit. There is obvious wear on the edge inboard of the wheel
Hub
Looking at it it's a complete hodge podge done by the previous owner.
The speedo drive is almost seized the spacers aren't correct. I will have to identify the wheel and swingarm and try and get correct parts.
The spindle total length is 8 1/4" or 7" inside of swingarm fixing
I'd have to measure one up but the end cover with slots for the speedo drive looks ok.
It would be interesting to know the following dimensions:
1. Inner spacer length (between bearing and speedo drive)
2. Outer spacer length
3. Swinging arm width (inside dimension between spindle brackets)
The inner spindle length looks to be much less than the figures I quoted for a A65 and B44?
It's 7 7/8" between swingarm
Swinging arm width about same as my NOS one. As I stated previously, yours looks to be correct for A65 but modified for some bizarre reason to include the extra adjuster. You earlier mentioned spacers being in wrong position? The picture I posted is of the spacers in the correct position i.e. stepped one goes inside the speedo drive with smaller diameter towards hub. The fact that your speedo drive is seized may not be helping matters.
Quote from: chrisx1 on 21 May, 2023, 13:35
It's 7 7/8" between swingarm
That width is almost 1/2" greater than the figure from the A65 workshop manual. Again, it would be useful to know what the inner and outer spacer (including large nut) lengths are so we can judge whether or not the dimensions are ok. The speedo drive needs to be free to move. If it is seized then that in itself might cause it to rotate with the wheel? If necessary, the dust cover and felt washer can be prised off to allow the speedo drive innards to be cleaned out and then re-greased.
Quote from: Spaceman on 21 May, 2023, 14:33
Quote from: chrisx1 on 21 May, 2023, 13:35
It's 7 7/8" between swingarm
That width is almost 1/2" greater than the figure from the A65 workshop manual.
Which manual are you refering to? For pre-OIF A65 the dimension is 7 25/32" (7.7812") which equates to approx 197.6mm. Was the dimension smaller for the earlier gearbox drive for speedo bikes?
Quote from: Ian C on 21 May, 2023, 14:02
The picture I posted is of the spacers in the correct position i.e. stepped one goes inside the speedo drive with smaller diameter towards hub.
Hands up on my part.. I should have written 'with LARGER diameter towards hub'.. Apologies for this earlier typo..
Despite having a maths degree, I can't seem to convert 25/32" into the approximate number of 1/8". As said, it's ~6/8" and not 3/8"!
I have freed up the drive and greased it as best I could. I have reassembled it as best I can. I'm using the incorrect rear adjusters as they seem to work better than the A65 ones. Haven't ridden it yet as my lovely wife has found other jobs for me to do in the garden.😂
Hi Chris,
I would say the swing arm spindle is definitely not A65. However...
The early QD swing arm spindles have a smaller thread than the later ones, in addition, the short spindle that goes through the hub is matched to the spindle and the OD Part of that short spindle is different between early and late models.
Could you remind me what year your A65 is?
If it's pre 67 and has the steel brake plate fitted then you could possibly get away with just buying the long spindle - I don't know the difference in thread size so would ere on the side of caution and buy both parts. However if it has an aluminium brake plate then the short spindle will definitely be B series as mentioned and to expand on the first paragraph, A65 with aluminium brake plate will have the fatter short spindle and there would be no reduction to the OD on the long spindle down to the thread. (The early QD A65 setup does reduce like yours)
I changed my 68 setup to the early type as I wanted to go to a 42t drum, it meant changing both spindles, brake plate, drum bearings, brake drum.
The good news was the OD on both shafts where it passes through the main hub bearings is identical for A65 (I assume for cost reasons the B series would be too?) so no change was needed by me
On the wheel itself.
Your swing arm looks typical pre oif QD type for an A65, but someone has got busy with the angle grinder and tried to improve on the adjustment setup....
Or they just had a load of bits in the garage and performed Frankensteins monster to make a
Bike up without spending much money...
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