My A65 engine and frame are now fully stripped down ready for the next stage of the resto project. However I cannot get the swing arm pivot pin out. Have removed the thin end nut, the spindle pivots with the swing arm, the plate at the other end is free of the frame by about 10 thou but axially the pin refuses to budge. Have soaked everything in releasing fluid for days, applied enough heat to get the rubber bushes smoking (setting off the smoke alarm!), made up a threaded puller and, when that failed vigorously applied the largest ' precision percussive adjusting tool' I have. It just won't move. Before anyone suggests it, I have also tried jumping up and down and swearing but that hasn't worked either. Of course the various manuals say to remove the nut and tap out the pin. Hah!! Am I missing something obvious here? I'd appreciate any advice!!!!
Cheers
Rob (Swindon)
You didn't say what year your A65 was but I assume it is fitted with Silentbloc bushes?
If so, this is probably one of those nightmare jobs you sometimes get when working on motorbikes and it's likely that the spindle has rusted solid on to the central tubes within the Silentbloc bushes. Unfortunately, your options for removing it are going to be a bit limited and are likely to result in a replacement spindle being needed. Best option is to apply as much heat as possible and give the threaded end progressively harder hits with a big hammer and hope this breaks the grip created by the rusting. If not, the only two option are likely to be to either drill out the ends of the spindle or to saw it through between the frame brackets and the swinging arm on both sides.
:) :) :) :)
I assume its the earlier frame and arm and the engine is out, Also assume FBH has failed. I would carfully cut it inside the frame on the anchor side or maybe both sides. Then you will have the arm out of frame.
If you then burn the rubbers out the remains of arm and bushes should pull through either way. Then the fun starts. Getting the bush outers out.
As stated you will need new bushes and cross arm. Readily available. I think I have a spare arm if as assumed its the hollow one.
Mike
Normally burning out the rubber inside each Silentbloc bush to allow each inner sleeve to be removed first is a messy and challenging job. Unfortunately, in this case, if the spindle has been sawn through at both ends to allow the swinging arm to be removed from the frame, it will mean that the rubber has to be burnt out of both bushes at the same time because the spindle will effectively connect both inner sleeves together. In other words, both inner sleeves will need to be freed at the same time.
I have never had to attempt it but drilling out the spindle, at least on one side, would mean you can then tackle each bush separately which would make the job a bit easier. The spindle is hollow and so drilling into one side would probably not be that difficult although you would need the appropriate drill size(es) to be available.
A certain amount of ingenuity is then required to extract the outer sleeves. In the past, I've simply heated up the end of the swinging arm tunnel and then drifted out the sleeve using a suitable length of metal inserted from the other end. I may well have used a large screwdriver for this purpose. A more subtle way of extracting the sleeve would be to use a blind bearing puller.
first time I ever had this problem was around 1983 and on a Honda CX500 so only a few years old.
a small hand saw handle with normal blade allows access when still built up. Once both sides sawn through the rubber bushes were drilled with a series of small holes then once cut through with the drill, the centre can be pushed out.
finally a dremel type tool carefully grinds the outer through in one or two places then levered out.
I did once try taking the frame and arm into work and put under the 2 ton press.... it didnt work.
Out of interest, I've just had a look at the BSA B40WD Technical Handbook to see how the MOD recommended removing the Silentbloc bushes from the swinging arm. Their approach was to burn out the rubber using thin rods or strips of metal that have been heated until enough rubber has been removed to allow the inner sleeves to then be drifted out. They then recommended simply drifting out the outer sleeves. Whether drilling or burning out the rubber, it's still a messy job!
:) :) :) :)
To remove the ouer sleeves: - I weld a piece 5/6mm plate across the INSIDE of the sleeve heat it all up and drift it out from the opposite end with a suitably sized bar, Messy but its the best and ultimately the quickest way I've found
Mike 8) 8) 8) 8)
Thanks everyone for the quick replies. I think I'm going to have to cut through the spindle as suggested and take it from there. FYI, it's a '62 frame and judging by the smell and smoke when applying heat I guess it's fitted with silent bloc bearings. Or at least it was!!!Off to buy a FBH.
They all used Silentbloc bushes up to 1969 when they were changed to plain bushes. I would definitely apply a bit of heat and try hitting the threaded end as hard as you can with a club hammer to see if it will move - you have nothing to loose if you damage the spindle since you will otherwise have to replace it anyway.
I find a copper hammer works better as it transfers more mass with no bounce.
For special jobs like this, I've got a Thor No. 3 copper faced hammer that weighs 2 kg - it will shift most things without doing too much damage to steel components :)
The swing arm pivot on my 1966 Spitfire seized solid a number of decades ago after never being lubricated since it left the factory. In the end I had to get a thin hacksaw blade between the frame brackets and the outside ends of the swing arm and cut the pivot tube into 3 parts in order to get it out. Subsequently I had to use a 20t press + heat to remove the remnants from inside the swing arm.
Thanks everyone for the helpful input. In the end I've finally freed the swing arm from the frame. I'd been heating and cooling everything along with liberal amounts of releasing fluid but nothing budged. Step 2 - heating things up and using a whole can of butane/propane mix the bushes smoked wonderfully but things still didn't budge. Step 3 - Made up a threaded puller, applied loads of heat , nothing, stuck fast. Step 4 - Loads more heat, made up a drift to fit the pin and belted the end of it for all I was worth. It moved! After 1 hour of this I'd got the pin to move 4". Step 5- Impatience finally set in. Cut the exposed 4" of the pin off with a cutting disc in the angle grinder, tapped the remains of the pin stub back a little and the damn thing finally came free. I still need to cut the pin and bush remnants from the swing arm but at least the part is more manageable on the bench than the full frame! But that's for another day. Time for a rummage in the fridge for a beer (or 2)! Oh the joys of fettling old motorbikes!!!
:) :) :) :)
At that point I just burn both rubbers out. However I have the advantage of oxy/acet torch. .My FBH is a 7lb sledge head on a 15inch handle. Works for me but I think not highly recommended.
Mike 8) 8) 8)
Well done in removing the swinging arm - it's always nice when perseverance pays off in the end :D
I know you've been dying to hear the latest instalment of the A65 swing arm pin saga :). Having got the swing arm fee of the frame I still needed to remove what remained of the pin. Getting thoroughly fed up with wielding a FBH my brother-in-law reminded me he had a 6 ton hydraulic press. Mounting up the swing arm with a suitable drift the pin slid out nicely along with the rubber component of the bearing. What was amazing was the HUGE pile of very fine reddish brown powdered rust that came out with it. I doubt it had been lubricated since it left the factory in 1962. This leaves me with the remnants of the outer bushes which are still firmly attached to the swing arm. I can't get behind them to drift them out so I cut a groove into the sleeves using a Dremel mounted cutting disc. The groove was used to locate a blind bearing puller but this has proved to be ineffective so far despite the addition of lots of heat to the outer swing arm and cooling the inner bearing. There's nothing for it now but to grind and cut the sleeves away being careful not to damage the swing arm ID. What a nightmare. But to be fair I had a similar problem with the bushes on a Yamaha I restored a couple of years ago. It's also the only part of the bike which has given any trouble when taking it apart. Going forward I'll reassemble the new bearings with anti corrosion grease (AC50) and all pack the space between them with grease. A greasing point will also be fitted to allow regreasing. Onwards and upwards!!
Rob
I've done a few Silentbloc replacements and they've all been messy and challenging even without a seized spindle. Although you would have thought swinging arms with needle roller bearings would be much easier to deal with, these can be an even bigger nightmare because you can then be faced with having to cut through hardened steel journals when the spindle has seized! I came close to having to right off a Honda XR20R frame when faced with this problem but, in the end, I managed to use a small angle grinder to do the cutting! The only effective way to prevent this sort of problem is to take out the spindle periodically and re-grease!
New Years Eve and eventually the remnants of the silent bloc bushes were dealt with. In the end it came down to creating a thinned area along the the length of the sleeve using a Dremel with cutting disc and grinding wheel. I then manage to split it along the thinned line. Even doing this I spent several hours with a hammer and small chisel 'peeling' the sleeve away from the inner diameter of the swing arm. Success at last. Just left time for a shower and change before heading off to see in 2023. Happy New Year all. Rob