Hi guy`s
having trouble with my mag on my Goldie RGS seems like it just needed a clean of pick ups etc, done that twice now but its not worked it seem as if it`s hard to start the bike bit hit and miss, went out for a ride went fine stopped had a cup of Tea went to start it and nothing Not even a spark at the plugs so Not fuel as spark plugs the right color been running fine, the mag was done buy Dave Lindsey I Know back in 2010 but even now its only done 2,900 miles. so I thought how about Electronic Ign......
So anyone got any suggestions as to what route to go found this one but don`t know anything about them Thorspark Electronic Ignition Conversion at £175 or is there something else to use to keep the look of the old.......as they say that it use the old mag ?
Cheers Mo
Hi,
SRM do a kit using Boyer but have you considered getting the mag checked out. In my experience mags like to used and 2900 miles in 12 years is not much. I would think that Dave Lindsey would be happy to have a look at it, otherwise try Priory Magnetos.
The advantage of EI is much better control of the ignition advance curve and a more reliable spark at all engine speeds but it does depend on the battery and so a good dynamo.
Dave.
Hi Dave
well my Dynamo has all been done and and upgrade on the reg/rec as that was what done my Dynamo in so that all good Now, and I do like the idea of the EI as so much more reliable so will have a look at SRM ones.
Thanks Mo
just looked on the SRM site but it don`t give a price for the units ?
Hi,
A couple of screenshots. The SRM one and the Wassel version.
Photo shows SRM trigger/stator installed in the mag on my A10.
Now reverted to a magneto.
I had Thorspark on my mag but when I had the engine rebuilt the chap that rebuilt it wasn't very complimentary about it. The chap who rebuilt my A10 said he had had a lot of customers complaining about reliability of Thorspark and recommended Wassell.
In the scheme of things while dishing out loads of dosh for the rebuild the cost of the Wassel just made the bottom line bigger. The wassel was fitted and timed as part of the build. If I kick it more than twice it is usually because I haven't turned the ignition on! Free the clutch, fuel on, tickle carb switch on and give it a kick and away we go.
It looks like a updated magneto with a dummy pick up lead. The coils are tucked up under the battery tray and it all looks tidy. One year on and I am pleased with it
well guy`s thanks for your advice its been good to have some feed back, I still Like the Thorspark Electronic Ignition Conversion as it keeps the look of the old by using the old Mag housing, the thing is they say to strobe the timing up but No one has said how this is done ? do you have to take the primary cover off to time it up...if so how ? ::)
Mo
Hi,
To strobe the timing you would probably need to take the primary cover off in order to have a degree disc and a pointer.
you will probably find that by taking your time and double checking you will get the timing right statically.
With the EI there is no advance and retard unit to mess things up and there is scope for some adjustment by turning the stator if needed.
Dave.
A couple of months ago I had a magneto problem ad did consider going over to the thorspark ignition but it is not just a case of fitting the unit in the mag you have to fit a dual coil somewhere and you are also reliant on having a decent battery, whereas with a magneto battery is only for the lights. I eventually decided to get the mag refurbished by Priory Magnetos who did an excellent job and I can highly recommend give them a ring and talk to the owner Andrew he is very helpful.
Hi Bob
Yes some people have said send it back to Dave Lindsey for him to look at as he done the overhaul but thing is don`t know what he will charge to sort it out again ....yes I know I wont know that till I ring and find out,,,,,,, but it has been done back in 2010 and its only done 2,900 miles in that time,,,, so that's why I thought to use a EI system as it should be fit and forget.. well almost ha
Give Paul a ring at APL in Shaftesbury. See how he compares on price, not many know more about mags than he does.t
Remember with Thorspark that you will still keep the magnetos shaft bearings, oil seal and, if fitted, the advance/retard mechanism, all of which will need to be in good condition.
You can get an idea of cost on the Priory Magneto website he charges £75 for strip and rebuild with whatever parts ae required extra so if you needed a new armature it would cost you £75 plus £145 for the armature. Magnetos in the main are very reliable yours has failed after 2900 miles but it has stood for quite some time which does not help any electrical component, the same could happen to the dynamo. I have an A7 as well as an A65 the A65 has had a Pazon electronic ignition system fitted for 12 years now with no problems but what powers that system ie alternater and coils which were renewed at the same time as the Pazon. I have had the alternater and rotor replaced and also one coil. I don,t think that that any system is more reliable than the other. A couple of years ago I was out on the A7 and had a dead short it flattened the battery in minutes but I could still ride the bike home with the magneto. You will always have something to fix on old bikes to me that is just part of enjoying them I get just as much satisfaction working on them as riding them.
I fitted a Thorspark to my Velocette MAC single. These bikes are notoriously hard to start and the Thorspark sorted the problem. I had great difficulty in getting the timing right even with a timing light because it was chicken and egg. The timing had to be right to start the bike! Eventually I got it right by trial and error which is very easy to do because you just turn the Thorspark rotor in the magneto. However, remember that the smallest of turns is several degrees. Any worries about battery failure can be easily remedied by carrying a small £20 Lucas battery as a spare. Thorspark uses very little electricity and will also run on 4 AA 1.5v batteries if connected up. Also, remember that the Thorspark relies on your Automatic Timing Device if fitted whereas other systems don't.
Keith
I thought I had trouble with my mag on my A7 and was about to take it off but then I thought I would check the earth button with a meter and sure enough it was down to earth, soon as I removed the lead at the mag she started first kick. I have never had any problems with mags, I did have one repaired by Tony Cooper in Hales Owen and it was well worth doing, a cracking spark every time.
TTJohn
Hi all thanks for all your help..
Julian
well I hope I have done right i decided to take the Mag off and have a look inside Not as if I could see much which I could Not but at least it is off..... any way I have taken you very expensive route and gone for the SRM one ....well when they send it that is .... don`t know what comes with the kit other than what was in the picture.
do you get any of the bearings seals etc with the kit and I see yours had the com red dummy leads on do you get them or the standard ones ...........or anything else you can tel me I need to Know will be great.
Cheers thanks Mo
sorry guys one more update.
after more deliberation I have decided Not to go for the SRM one. so cancelled that and instead went for this... so that means I will get my mag Re-done at some point.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254071685404?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20211130125621%26meid%3D2db4c6563ca74ffd947ccf4f2da34d5b%26pid%3D101465%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D155067308561%26itm%3D254071685404%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D3817808%26brand%3DLucas&_trksid=p3817808.c101465.m3507
Mo Sorry I didn't get back to you re the SRM kit.
The Boyer micropower was not a success, it was difficult to start and constantly kicked back ( no it was not low voltage) It ran well when the micropower setup was changed for a Boyer Mk 4, but to be honest after the initial problem I was fed up with it and decided to go back to the magneto which was rewound by Priory Magnetos and gives faultless performance.
thanks Julian
yes well I have got the one I put a link to, that means I will have mine done as a back up....If I ever needed it that is Hope I don`t so we shell see how it all go`s .
Cheers Mo
well just a quick update the kit came today,,, No duel coil so got to get one of them and get a fixed drive gear for the mag and a switch to shut it all off and on plus a few other bit`s and bob`s .....price keep going up ha ::)
it better be worth it ha ;D
Hi everyone.
Well an update on the way things are going well Not too good at the moment, I have put all together and I have a spark but she wont fire up, took the plugs out for the tenth and got her to TDC on comp stroke then backed off 3/8 BTDC and she wont even fire. on the trigger I have set it to the A position which is anti clock wise and the rotor lines up with the stator Line....... Thought I might be 18o out so turned it around and still Nothing......Getting a bit dejected at the Min as done it to the book.....and it is positive earth which I have check about ten times to make sure That I have got it right....... and as I say I have a spark on both plugs......anyone had any problems with this kit oh its this one
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264042340008?hash=item3d7a265ea8:g:6kYAAOSwkgBiPe~D&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAsJ5FN6RCqCIfxdEwyA24xvlv5SajvbvxpKq7eflAVcEIN1LaRs6il2rpXff%2BIY4DQsWPfUT%2FlTjasyw3ECSvzyEQGnNZyH4SeNk%2FtaVTIVWjqrKsqRGq4aPKlmXMajVR2RcqIbsTNdcfCKvDZADjM%2FgDjrPSXKDB3QrYKOAra%2BSmY35pzxt1PQFhMu%2BwvclajDJdsTwvIzF5z9oMIMCraWoxFcDSJjsnBn4VvrZoXDlp%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR5rW6oXXYA
Hi,
As you have a twin lead coil they both fire at the same time so being 180º out should not make much difference, not like with a mag.
If there is a spark and fuel then the motor would at last try to fire so perhaps something a bit more basic.
This had been mentioned on the Forum before and I know it can happen because I have done it but...
How are you turning the engine to get TDC? As the engine turns forward when running it must be timed using forward rotation, so clockwise from the timing side or anticlockwise from the primary side.
This is clutching at straws but worth a thought.
Dave.
Hi Dave
I am kicking it over till I get TDC then putting it in 2nd gear and just knocking it back using the rear wheel and taken the TDC tool back 3/8" and yes I am Anti clock wise from the Primary side, the rotor mark is spot on the the A on the pick ups,
I have also tried to do it on the right cylinder as well still No luck, Battery is full the spark is Not that great I think looks a bit yellow. the coil has two leads one yellow and one black so I think that the yellow is the + one and the Black is the - one,
I have wired it up just how Wassel book say to do for a twin coil with Positive earth, as I say the is a spark at both plugs I even changed the plugs just incase but still nothing.
Mo
Hi,
The spark is in the right place but looking a bit weak. Even with a less than ideal spark there would still be an attempt at firing. The next 'straw clutching' question must be, is enough fuel getting through?
Usually a spark and some fuel results in some combustion.
Dave.
Hi dave
Just had anther look and yes loads of fuel as the plugs get wet I really am just seem to be fed up at the moment.i am going to call brit bikes tomorrow and ask if they have had any problems with the units.i thought this would be just fit and forget...got the show coming up in a few weeks it's booked in but don't think it will be going at this rate.
Hi mo,
I have just found another piece of straw. I think this is right.
Looking at the timing side the crank turns clockwise, the idler turns anticlockwise, the cam turns clockwise so the mag pinion turns anticlockwise.
So using a bit of imagination, looking through the engine from the primary side, the crank turns anticlockwise, the idler turns clockwise, the cam turns anticlockwise so the mag pinion turns clockwise.
So from this the points end of the mag turns clockwise so perhaps the C on the stator should be used.
Dave.
Just been out to the shed and checked the EI on my wife's A10 and the rotor turns clockwise.
Have look at the arrow on your old mag just to make sure.
Hi Dave
are yes that all seems right to me, and yes I do see that the rotor is going in the clock wise direction looking from the primary side so maybe tomorrow I will look to setting it up on the C and Not the A..... worth a Try ha,
Cheers Mo
YAHOOOOOO ( No Not Them lot :D )
Thanks Dave and to the Wife`s A10..... as yes that was it....so all this time going by the book was wrong as yes it needed to be on the C on the pick up an Not the A, at least I am near Now to spot on Timing as she run`s but needs setting up better.....I Know a strobe would be good but what ? strobe at the marks on the rotor and pick up marks ?
Hi Mo,
Fantastic news. Trying to strobe on the rotor and pickups seems a bit fiddly. I would use something like a 6" degree disc attached to the crank and a pointer attached with one of the case screws. This means that each degree and any adjustments can be easily seen. I know it means taking the primary cover off with the hassle of resealing it but it will probably be worth it. You will be able to any adjustments of the EI stator as you make them. SRM recommend 35º BTDC for the Aluminium heads. This is supposed to be better todays fuels other wise I think it is 38º.
Dave
Hi Dave
Yes that what I thought I would have to do which is taken off the primary cover but if a job is worth doing it`s worth doing right ha..... thanks again for all your help and at least I have a week or so to get it all done before the show......just hope this year I don't get Knocked off like last year coming home. the BSA won a best in Judges class so I was well happy.... riding My KH400 home first when some daft Tart done a U turn in front of me..... Bike lay in bit`s ...me well what can I say Broken shoulder Bone and 8 Broken ribs,,,,, still I have rebuilt the KH400 better than it was New Now so she will be in show too this year...... Oh I built her from a frame and half an Engine 15 years ago for a £1 including the V5 ........
Hi,
Good luck in the show. By the way what show is it?
Dave.
H Dave..
It`s the Copdock show Ipswich........took the primary case of today and handy that the SRM Nut also has two holes that I managed to mount the Wessel Disc to so I will get on with that next
Hi,
Copdock is a bit of run from North Lincs. We did go a few times when we lived in Norfolk. I would imagine that the BSAOC Norfolk Branch will be there with a stand.
Dave.
yes that is a bit of a trek Dave,
I am normally in the main hall but hope I can get out around the auto Jumble and the Trade stands so might meet some BSA owners too hope all to be good this year,
I will let you Know how it go`s with the strobe Timing as soon as I get around to that.
Again Thanks for all your help ;D
Cheers Mo