Hi, I have recently purchased the bike above.
I amm trying to recommission it for use, ASAP.
The bike has been in storage for a couple of years prior to me purchasing.
I have couple of queries I am struggling to find the answer to.
I am relatively new to A65's I do own a 1960 A7 and a Bantam D7.
Today I was checking for replacing fluids, while I drained the gearbox oil which was remarkably clean.
The drain plug is of the single type, without the level plug within.
The main cause for my stress is there is no filler/dipstick in the casing where it's supposed to be.
There is a small brass breather plug in it's place which is threaded into a 6mm hole.
My question is, I can't find any info on this in any of my books or visual of anything similar.
How would I fill the gearbox without sounding stupid, as the hole is only about 6mm with no level guide,
It seems an impossibility to put the suggested amount of oil into that small hole. Am I missing something?
The other query involves the zener/heat sink was not connected by wire anywhere, with no evidence of it going somewhere. The heat sink was earthed but obviously is not doing anything wire wise.
The bike is vfitted with electronic ignition, Boyer bransden, micro-my 3, but no power pack, but does have a small 4 wire rectifier, is it possible the zener is now surplus to requirements because of the electric ignition set up.
Your answers will be very much appreciated.
The level tube is really there to aid topping up the gearbox. If you are replacing the oil, just fill it with the recommended amount. I don't quite understand the bit about the brass breather plug. There should just be a filler plug on top of the gearbox like the clutch inspection plug in the chaincase.
The Zener diode should be connected across the output of the rectifier that goes to the battery - I think this is via a brown/blue wire The Zener diode is there just to dump some of the alternator output when not required to prevent it over-charging the battery.
Just had a look at my later A65 and reminded myself that it has a plastic dipstick screwed into the top of the inner timing cover but no filler cap in the top of the gearbox. What I find slightly confusing is that the 1966 parts book shows a drain plug with level tube, a filler cap in the top of the gearbox and a dipstick in the top of the inner timing cover.
Photo of top of cases where filler cap/ dipstick should be?
That's an odd one. On my later engine as shown, you can see a circular witness mark on the top of the gearbox where the filler cap went on the earlier engines using the same screw cap as the clutch inspection cap in the chaincase. It looks as though your engine was not originally fitted with the standard filler cap and someone has fitted something bespoke. It would be interesting to know if there was something in the history of the bike that could explain why you have this arrangement (eg, was the engine used for competition purposes??). Unfortunately, if a dip stick is not fitted in the inner timing cover, the only way I can see of filling the gearbox with oil would be via your version of the filler plug.
Hi,
Definitely a mix of cases. I believe the threads are different between the plain drain plug and the one with the level tube so not a simple substitution. Perhaps modify the drain plug by fitting a level tube. It will still be a pain filling/topping up through a 6mm hole but the alternative would be quite a lot of work.
Dave.
The bike was completed at Armoury road on 31st December 1966. It was shipped to USA (Texas) it had 3 American owners, before being shipped back to the UK in 2nd Jan 1992.
It had a complete engine rebuild around 2006 and done a 138 miles since.
From the photos I have of the bike in America, it does show the standard gearbox slotted filler cap.
So this mod? Has been done at a later stage.
I am intrigued and getting frustrated as to what the mod is and why was it fitted.
The only possibility I can think of from the history, is that when the engine was rebuilt in 2006, they substituted a 1968 or 1969 RH (and possibly LH) crankcase because the original was too badly damaged (I had to do this on one of my non-BSA bikes). Unfortunately, rather than substituting the corresponding later inner timing cover as well with dipstick fitted, they used the original 1966 inner cover. To allow them to refill the gearbox, they must have bored the biggest hole they thought possible which, unfortunately, was only 6 mm in diameter! The filler hole could obviously be enlarged but you would probably have to remove the gearbox internals first!
Thank you Spaceman, That seems the most feasible answer and is one I was contemplating myself.
I think I may just have to stick to what I have, I can fill it with the recommended amount of gearbox oil and chance that it will be correct. The oil that was in there looked nice and clean so somebody has filled it before through there. I have a couple of very large syringes which should fit the aperture.
It should take 500cc/0.875 of a pint. HP90.
What I would recommend is that, after filling the gearbox up with the specified amount of oil, you measure the oil level relative to the top of the filler hole with a suitable dipstick so that, at a later date, you then have a way of being able to check the oil level and to able to top it up if necessary.
Sounds like this is a 1967 season bike - the first 1967 season models were shipped out in July 1966 and a 1967 season Lightning engine number would start A65LA, A for 1967 season.
My 1967 parts book is showing a dip stick in the inner timing cover.
At the very minimum, it looks as though the RH crankcase and inner timing cover don't match. What is confusing is that the 1967 parts book shows a drain plug with level tube, a filler cap in the RH crankcase and a dipstick in the inner timing cover - you would have thought that, if they have gone to the trouble of fitting the dipstick for that year, the other two items would no longer be necessary as was the case shown in the 1968 parts book. The truth may be that for 1967, the parts book was not updated to reflect some of the changes made that year, in which case, we probably may need to be a bit circumspect in using it to show what was actually fitted to the engine.
That said, Stan believes the engine was originally fitted with the filler cap. If it is a 1967 season model, it definitely does not have the correct inner timing cover and dipstick. While I can see why a crankcase might need to be changed during an engine rebuild, it is more difficult to see why you would need to change the inner timing cover to an earlier one, always assuming that was possible.
Thank you for the valuable comments, I have committed myself to your suggestion that the crankcase was replaced with possibly a later one with no filler cap, which replaced the original one with the filler cap.
I would also assume whoever rebuilt it, used the existing outer cases, which is why there is no dipstick in the timing cover.
They obviously drilled a hole in the crankcase to take the fitting that is currently there.
I should be able to add gearbox oil through there, as it has been done before, just short of a pint.
I may try buying an early drain plug/level screw, which hopefully will fit.
This should make checking the correct level easier than guesswork.
My other option further down the line, if I strip the timing cover off and replace that with the dipstick version. This may be done as I would like to change the oil pump for an SRM one. However all this is subject to money and at the moment those pumps are out of stock and at approx £300.00 aren't cheap.
My main priority is to get it up and running ASAP. Thanks again.
Thanks again guys👍🏻
regarding swapping cases, a year or two ago, a pair of new cases appeared on ebay unstamped. there was also a bottom end with a hole in the cases where a rod had snapped. wouldnt be impossible to rebuild with the new cases and then stamp up an earlier number, A lot of old stock is returning from America .
I had a quick look to see whether you could fit the earlier drain plug with level tube (40-1034) to replace the later plain one you have (68-3167) but it looks as though the thread sizes are different: 3/8" versus 1/2", probably both BSW. However, worth double checking.
In terms of replacing the inner timing cover with a later one fitted with a dipstick, unfortunately, BSA changed a few other things in the engine design at the same time. In particular, they changed the way the stops were implemented for the gear change lever. The earlier engines used a stop plate acting against stop pins, whereas, the later engine used a modified gear quadrant and stops cast into the inside of the inner timing cover. I'm sure you could change the cover to a later cover but you would also have to change the gear quadrant and, possibly, the inner gearbox cover as a minimum.
Mmm🤔 I guess I'm best leaving it as it is, no point opening one can of worms, to create another.
I can live with it, the way it is. Just need it it up and running now, a little oil here and there, a new battery and check out the Zener connection, then I should be up and running.
Your advise has been really useful, thanks again guys.
Mmm🤔 I think I will leave it as it is.
I don't see the point in opening another can worms to create another. Getting it up and running now is the priority.
A few pints of oil in different places, a new battery and sorting/testing the zener. Should all do the trick.
I can look at other thing further down the line.
Just want it on the road for now, thanks again gents for your usefull info/feedback, very much appreciated 👍.
I would add, if the bike is new to you and running, I would give it a 100 or so miles, say 3 or 4 runs out of varying lengths and speeds, then have a look.
Its all new to you, depending if its recently been rebuilt prior to your buying, had a good thrashing or been laid up for months/ years, you wont really know.
Unless, like me and the A50, imported back sat in a dealers for a month or more, no idea when it was used in America last, SO try to start it...
AS it started and with no real history.... strip it.
If however its been used by previous owner frequently you may be ok. otherwise, an oil change, maybe engine flush, new fuel then a few miles you will find out where the leaks are, and there are many possibiliities,
if it runs and no excess smoke or flames you are looking good, its then a few miles of riding and you will know what needs looking at.
Its not impossible for swaps on something this age.
I have a similar problem. French re-import A65 Lightning.
As regards electronic ignition, mine came with a Boyer micro Mk111, it replaced points and advance/retard. Except for poor wiring (now fixed) it seem to work OK.
When I first looked over the bike I noticed the zenor diode was still in place but not wire connected, which panicked me at first. As regards rectifier and zenor diode, mine came with a Cypress Podtronics AC rectifier and regulator, it replaced rectifier and voltage regulator and zenor diode. Except for poor wiring (now fixed) it seem to work OK.
Although a bit late, I hope this helps.
Ooops, sorry I'm not good with forums. I've posted the above carb problems in the "singles" section.
What I have posted about concentric carbs is still relevant i.e. tickle pin damaging float.