The spark seem to come and go at the plugs , crank it over all seems fine then dies off for a few cranks then comes back, have checked connections and all seem sound , bypassed the ignition switch and still has same problem , tested the combined resistance at the sender wires at the unit plug and comes to 136ohms havent tested them individually , the coil seems ok reading 5.1 and 18k , replaced the plug caps for resistance ones as recommended. cant do the sender bypass test as doesnt work on the bsa twin setup apparently . Any suggestions?
Hi Pockets,
I had a similar problem with a Boyer but the problem was actually in the wires from the pick up and the unit. There must have been an internal break that intermittently worked/didn't work. Ironically it was the one bit of the old harness that I did not review.
Dave.
Do you meen between the sender stator and the unit , was it not supplied with the kit ?
The resistance on your coil is very high, electronic coils are about .5 ohm or are you reading across two coils designed for points in which case 5.1 is fine.
its a dual plug coil and reads within specs for that coil, think wassell recomend between 3/4.5 ohms , think u can get issues with continous firing if the resistance is to low , but could maybe it does cause issue if to high dont know, but when looking online on ebay the ones they say are compatible with wassell boyer for sale have the same outputs as mine ,
Have checked again for spark and defo sparks for a while , a good few cranks fine then nothing for up to 7cranks then kick in again , strangs symptoms, have tested the resistance at the stator coil and it stays constant at 136 ohms even if i wiggle the sender wires so dont think its that .
Gotta be ignition coil , control unit or stator plate surely.
with electronic ignition i always have the earth connection to battery earth. whats yours like?
yes it goes to battery , Ive also rerouted the sender wire as it was running with other wires which can cause problems aparently , still the same , have ordered new ig coil which seemed ok but for the sake of £20 to rule it out thought it was worth getting a new one .
the trouble with coils, past experience on Japanese bikes, is that they run fine until they start playing up. usually as a result of internal damage.
when cold (normal time to check), they are fine but when they get warm they start breaking down.
Two modern Triumphs, first a Trophy 900 starts playing up, middle coil, and the rev counter stops working, second a Speed Triple, coils over heat, solved by using flexible washing machine pipe under the tank to direct cold air onto the coils.
the coils are sensative, so on a Brit vibrator probably not the best thing.
it doesnt run long enough to be effected by heat as wont start for more than a few seconds , but have ordered a new coil to rule it out , seemes fine when tested but maybe has issue under load I supose , if its not that then something wri=ong with the electronic side of things .
Hi,
Re my comments re Boyer. The fly lead on the Boyer is quite short so an extension was need to exit the timing cover and connect to the magic box. I have used a twin lead coil mounted on its heat sink for many thousands of miles with no issues.
Have you tried different plugs?
Dave.
Im running the Wassel ignition on the B40, cant fault it. fires easy , better than the bob weight system, if only the carb was more reliable.
I did fit a new coil and its a home made loom so new wires and connectors soldered on, long enough wire but not over long as per their instructions., didnt have a lot of luck positive earth, but since changing to negative its fine.
Havent tried different plugs as they look new .
Hi,
You never know so worth a try. There have been a couple of threads about plugs and some have porous insulators which can get wet with fuel and not spark properly.
Dave.
They are NGK B7ES plugs like new.
Hi,
Definitely the plug I use. Clutching at straws, but have you got another one to try. Any plug just to try an alternative.
Dave.
yes ,I've tried one from my veedub , is the same unfortunately . Gunna wait for the new coil to arrive and see what occurs.
I have known, and it is accepted , that, new plugs can be failures. mass produced, I doubt individually tested prior to boxing. if one was dropped anywhere from production line through dispatch, transport, wholesale, distributor, shop, garage etc .
a throw away item, the porcelain can crack and fail. always best to try another , even a used one before writing off a plug as not the problem.
It's deffo sparking fine for a few kicks then stops for a few kicks then starts again , go to be the reason it only fires up either briefly or just fires without starting, have taken the carb apart again and found rubbish in the pilot jet , the fuel lines are breaking down on the inside because of r6 pipe , having trouble sourcing R9, halford only sell rR6 , shouldnt be sold anymore , have bought some from ebay but not confident it is'nt just rebranded stuff that I here is going round, but at least it'll be ok for testing without causing immediate issues, don't think the carb is the main issue as its pretty obvious that it has a spark problem . It had crud in tank from the sprayer painting the inside of filler neck and it breaking down and going in tank and no filters on pepcocks , [have ordered some] I put a temp inline filter on one line and when pushing it on noticed bits of rubber coming off internal of pipe but thats only happened recently .
Replaced the dual coil , put an ally float needle in, new fuel lines and soldered the filters onto pepcocks , still the same , got to be the electronic ignition surely.
Hi Pockets,
As you have eliminated just about everything else the EI could well be the problem. Send it back to Wassel for testing.
Dave.
Its now going , maybe the coil was the problem after all , not sure what it was, a combination of things perhaps , now its going have noticed quite a rattle coming from primary chaincase area , is it alright to run it with the cover off as long as im cautious? to get a look whats causing it , shame as just renewed gasket on that side.
Hi,
I would suggest that before running it without the cover just make sure there is nothing obvious. A slack chain is a candidate along with the clutch not being tight. If you do run it without the cover just be careful. If some thing flies off, it could have your eye out.
Dave.
Here's a link to noise https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAVqVkLr6dU
does the noise change if you rev it up?
pri chain loose may tighten up quieter at revs, stupid question, oil in the primary?
clutch nut tight , may be loose rollers letting basket go off centre, letting chain wander and rub inside casing.
sure its primary and not rockers?
screwdriver against the ear and various casing areas, just to check where the noise is coming from. well known for noise to travel through the cases.
yes the noise changes with revs , has oil , what are rollers , scuse my ignorance , clutch nut tight ? as in the clutch operating rod adjuster? Have done the screwdriver by ear already and does sound like primary area but job to know, did you watch the vid?
Havent touched anything on clutch only replaced primary gasket recently , and it had been ridden around 200 odd miles by the owner before being layed up for a year and a half and then me recommisioning it and replacing what was needed .
the chainwheel (clutch outer / basket) runs on a centre hub and there are rollers between, 21 of them.
any small movement , say 2thou is multiplied by the time it gets to the outer diameter so the basket can move radially and laterally.
there is a tab washer that holds the clutch retaining nut in place, these can break .
there is only maybe 1/4 pint of oil in the primary, lubrication by splash process, if the engine has not been running there will be no oil getting to the clutch, rollers or top 3/4 run of chain. any moisture from a cold garage or shed can introduce light rusting.
yes, I did watch the vid, and have an A50 in bits at the moment, having had 2 thunderbolts and just finishing a B40.
Its always different watching videos as opposed to actually being there, I fitted a new cam tensioner to a Kawasaki 750 once because of a rattle. It was still there after. ended up taking the exhaust off and found a stone had entered the silencer and was sat in the bottom of the down tube.
Hi Pockets,
A65s are notorious for rattles and noises from the primary and timing sides and yours does not sound too bad. Timing side is usually some back lash in the timing pinions but this will be less as the engine speed picks up.
On the primary side, as mentioned, the chain, clutch and alternator rotor are the usual culprits.
Just to be sure, I would start by making sure the chain is adjusted correctly and that the tensioner is not through to bare metal. The clutch will move a bit regardless of what you do to it but should not make noise once fully engaged - does the noise change when the lever is pulled in? The alternator rotor can come loose so make sure that the nut is very tight and that the outer aluminium part is not loose on the steel inner part - particularly with earlier rotors.
Dave.
Thanks for reply Dave, the noise doesnt appear to alter when I engage clutch , going to remove primary cover and investigate , seems strange as my brother inlaw says that it as fine before , and it is quite a rattle , but the vid looses clarity when uploaded to youtube .
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOhdb4EiEyqiqh8-ANvzH9w posssible source of rattle when running ?
the double tap tap
Hi Pockets,
That noise sounds like a bit of back lash in the timing gears. As the engine is turned the gears turn the cam which ultimately pushes the valve springs. As the cam rotates the springs push back against the cam which pushes back against the gears. I think this is the double click you can hear. There is also some usual noise from the kick start mechanism. Try turning the engine with the rear wheel and see if there is any difference.
It does not sound like too much to me.
Did you find anything in the primary? I am assuming that your brother-in-law has listened to the engine so that he can compare with what he remembers.
Dave.
Not removed the cover yet , but it is quite a load rattle when running that the vid doesnt really get across , he seems to think it didnt do it before when he listened over phone , lives in Brighton so cant hear in person , I,m thinking its either stator or chain tensioner , will investigate further today.
It sounds as if the rubber of the chain tensioner has broken away. You then get metal to metal contact which will not go away with the clutch disengaged.
Removed the primary cover to investigate and the tensioner seem integral , maybe a little slack on chain but no evidence of interference mark on cover or anything, there seems to be some movement on the clutch plate splines , and also on the chainwheel but dont not whats normal , have uploaded some more vids for reference. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zVgIQyLH2JY https://www.youtube.com/shorts/z8WkNbh0994