Evening all,
I'm struggling on with my forks, have now removed the second one, and (surprise, surprise) have come across another problem: getting the oil seal holder undone. On the first fork, a hot air gun and a shock wallop with a hammer, using the two-lugged tool, did the trick. This time, tried WD40, hot air gun, and a good wallop, but no joy. I don't know whether the worn chrome is significant, eg whether it indicates that the seal holder has been squeezed onto the male thread at some stage over the years. Any ideas please?
Phil
If you are prepared to possibly wreck the seal holder, mount the bottom half in a vice with soft jaws and use a strap wrench or pipe wrench to unscrew the holder. You may damage it but you can try wrapping the seal holder with something to protect it but you may lose grip.
Try laying the leg on its side, supporting the area of the threaded portion of the seal holder with a block of wood. Using a hide or plastic mallet, tap the thread area opposite the supported side. Rotate the fork leg as you do this, working all the way round. Retry unscrewing the holder using the special tool. Sometimes this is enough to shock the threads free.
Providing the dogs on the tool still engage strongly with the seal holder, I would recommend adding suitable lengths of tube to the rods either side of the tool to greatly increase the leverage. You may need to clamp the fork leg horizontally in the vice to enable you to put your weight behind the tool to keep it engaged. Applying a sharp turning motion to the tool should release the thread.
Unfortunately, if the dogs on the tool no longer strongly engage with the seal holder then it's probably toast.
I'm holding the slider horizontally in the vice, clamping the vice on the welded lug at the bottom of the slider. Giving the t-bar of the tool a wallop with a club hammer. I'm a bit afraid to hit too hard in case I bend, or shear off, the lug. The dogs engage but not brilliantly. I don't have a strap wrench, but I've thought on and off over the years that I ought to get one. Maybe now's the time, maybe the hot air gun and a strap wrench would do it, but I'm inclined to think a shock would work better than a steady pull on the strap wrench. Maybe the extra leverage idea is worth a shot. Keep trying anyway. I just hope it's not stuck on with some dreadful stuff. I'll let you know what happens. (Bet you're thrilled, eh?! :))
Phil
There is no reason to "glue" the seal holder on. A previous owner may have used some strong gasket sealer to seal the threads which has set. I still would use a strap wrench if the proper tool won't move it but put some heat into the joint first which may disturb it.
Still struggling here. Bought a (Draper, with a rubber strap) strap wrench, but it just slips, even after a good stint with the hot air gun. Tried a bit of duck tape under it, same result. I'm starting to think how best I can get it off even if I have to sacrifice the seal holder and buy a new one. Don't really want to be thinking like that, but running out of ideas. Phil
The problem you have is that the strap wrench needs to grip onto the seal holder.
If it really that tight, you may well end up damaging it. If you have got an old cycle or motorbike inner tube , cut it open to wrap the seal with, then try using the strap wrench. You may have to use a chain whip, or even some large Stilsons over the rubber but I do feel you may damage the seal holder.
As long as the dogs don't slip, it's just a case of applying more leverage using extensions on the cross bars. However, whatever you do, don't use a mallet because it will destroy the inside of the seal holder and from my experience you will need much more torque than can be provided by any strap wrench.
I've undone many over the years and it's usually just a case of applying a sharp jerk (with your hands) to the extended cross bar to break the lock although you have to put your weight behind the tool to stop the dogs from jumping out. The seal holders have a very fine thread which, combined with a bit of corrosion, always make them hard to start to unscrew. From my experience, destroying a seal holder to get them off doesn't always end well!
Quote from: AdrianS on 10 Feb, 2022, 14:17
The problem you have is that the strap wrench needs to grip onto the seal holder.
If it really that tight, you may well end up damaging it. If you have got an old cycle or motorbike inner tube , cut it open to wrap the seal with, then try using the strap wrench. You may have to use a chain whip, or even some large Stilsons over the rubber but I do feel you may damage the seal holder.
I've tried rubber underneath the (rubber) strap , but it just tore. I'll try (yet again) the tool plus leverage Haven't got any pipe, so I just use a ring spanner on the end of the tool's tommy bar. The tool jumps out of the dogs, and the whole job wants to leap out of the vice, but anyway I'll give it another shot. Phil
You need something better than a ring spanner to be able to apply enough torque - I've got plenty of old stanchions that I've used in the past but the tubes you add probably need to be at least 1 foot long! However, if the dogs don't hold with your weight behind the tool then trying to apply a much greater torque is not going to work.
Hi,
Are the dogs on the tool perfectly square? Any slight imperfection will encourage them to ride out of the slots in the seal holders.
Is there any one who can help you? Pushing on the tool hard in to the seal holder whilst turning will help.
Dave.
Yes, thanks Dave, I've been trying to do that. The tool is new, but it's slipping off. Maybe I need a pair of Stilsons. I'm pretty much resigned to the fact that the seal holder might not come out of this unscathed. Phil
BTW, I notice now that the tool, which was new at the start of this, is now rounded off on one side of its lugs.
Stilsons on order.
But still haven't lost all hope of saving the oil seal holder.
Phil
Hi Phil,
As it is likely the seal holders will be trashed with the Stilsons why not try one more thing with the tool. Get the rounded tongues nice and square again and perhaps even under cut them a bit then heat them up until cherry red and quench in cold water. This should case harden them a bit and with the slight under cut give them more bite.
Dave.
I would strongly recommend trying to unscrew them with the special tool or get someone to help you. The problem with using a Stilson is that the only part of the seal holder that you will be apply it to that won't collapse under the force is at the lower part where the thread is but all you will probably do is to squeeze it against the slider and make things worst. I have destroyed a pair of seal holders in the past in order to remove them when I found the special tool no longer engaged but it was very brutal and far from easy to do. If I remember correctly(a long time ago), I ended up having to use a cutting disk to split the holder where the thread was to release it.
The strongest part is the lip above the oil seal. If you have to sacrifice the seal holder that's where you need to put the force. This is above the threads.
I would still try as said with the proper tool making sure it is engaged properly.
Efforts over for today. New Draper strap wrench given a good go but the strap broke. Might try filing the tool's lugs next, as suggested by Dave.
Phil
Unfortunately, in my experience, it is the cut outs in the seal holder that fail rather than the tool - if I remember correctly, the ring with the cut outs in them is only about 1/8" thick and hence it doesn't take much to damage them. If you lived close enough to Oxford, I would happily offer to try to undo them for you but, as said, once the tool stops engaging things become much more difficult.
Today I succumbed and went along to my local motorcycle repair shop. The bloke there had the oil seal holder undone within a few minutes. Here's how he did it: clamped in a good vice (he didn't like the idea of holding it on the lug so just held it on the main body of the slider, protected by alli vice clams and rags); cleaned up the edges of the pegs on the tool, using his bench grinder; using a copper mallet, did a lot of gentle tapping around the circumference in the thread area; using an oxy-acetylene torch, gently played a naked flame around it; using the tool (no extension, no shock) undid the seal holder. Didn't work at first, but didn't take long. I was delighted, but on the way home was disappointed in myself really: it was after all very doable, I should have done more tapping, should have used a naked flame (btw, it didn't damage the chrome as far as I can see), should have squared up the tool's pegs and tried again, as suggested by Dave and Spaceman. In short, I gave up too soon. Oh well, at least I've learnt. Next time... :)
Phil
Don't knock yourself we never know everything even if we think we do.
I didnt worry too much when I did the B40 as the chrome was dented and scuffed so use a chain strap wrench . already had new replacements to fit as doing seals at same time as the total rebuild