Evening all,
Feel a bit of an idiot. I've got tool 61-3350 (fork leg remover) but can't see how it works! Not having removed a fork leg ever before doesn't help, of course! I've removed the pinch bolt, and screwed the black threaded part of the tool into the top where the chrome cap was, and given it a wallop with a nylon hammer, but nothing is moving. (Presumably the long threaded part of the tool is for reassembling the forks?) Looking down the hole, I don't see much! Could someone enlighten me please?
Phil
Some heat from a heat gun applied to the yokes could help. If you are not too concerned about the paintwork.
On my TRW250 the chrome top nuts were a bit shabby, I loosened them a couple of turns and with a sharp hammer blow on the nut the leg came loose without heat. Cheers
I tried loosening the cap a few turns and giving it a knock, but nothing moved.
The problem is that the top of the fork leg fits into a tapered hole. Applying a bit of heat will help but you need to hit the slightly loosened nut with a heavy mallet to break the taper lock. If necessary, use something the weight of a club hammer with something on the nut to protect the surface.
The original BSA tool (a lot shorter) was designed to be struck hard with a hammer to break the taper in the top yoke.
It may help to carefully tap a wedge into the machined slot in the bottom yoke to open it slightly. Any rust or dirt on the shaft does not help.
Can you screw your fork leg remover into the leg, support it and hit it with a hammer.
I assume it's only one small bit of the tool (an inch or so long) that should be screwed in and hit?
I assume you have undone the pinch bolts on the bottom yoke. tap an old screwdriver into the slot to open it. A nylon hammer is a waste of time. Screw the tool into the stanchion and hit it hard with a heavy mallet, as said they can be tight on the taper.
Yes I've removed the pinch bolt (see photo - a bit blurred, sorry.) I guess I need to use a bigger hammer.
Am I right in saying the longer part of the tool is just for the refitting stage?
Phil
Whether you use the special tool or the top nut, you have to impart a sufficiently large impulse to break the lock of the taper. I normally use a Thor Copper Rawhide mallet as shown below for this type of job which weighs 1.6 kg or just over 3 lb! As said, a club hammer, although lighter, would probably still do the job with a sheet of wood in between to protect the surface of the nut.
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/mallets/0732533?cm_mmc=UK-PLA-DS3A-_-google-_-PLA_UK_EN_Hand_Tools_Whoop-_-Mallets_Whoop+(2)-_-732533&matchtype=&aud-827186183726:pla-297194765008&gclid=Cj0KCQiA9OiPBhCOARIsAI0y71Bo1ZFIAGnsRQZ2MgbpYpE76GkdTWP6yksv8sJ7Dr5VQFMivRv0XicaArOLEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
Morning everyone,
I've just tried clouting it with a club hammer, hitting the tool you see on the photo, screwed into the cap hole (protected with a bit of wood when I hit it of course.) No movement. It seems solid. Am I missing something? Regarding opening up the slot, where exactly? I don't see where it will open out. There are spot welds here and there - hopefully there are meant to be.
Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.
Phil
Phil - You should see the slot like photo below - an A10 item but same principle on the B40- gently does it just a fraction too much and it can fracture- and if not already done disconnect the battery.
The taper in the top toke can be hard to break. I use a lump hammer on my A10.
Julian beat me to it but here are my pics from an M21
(https://i.ibb.co/fpQSM2f/forks-1.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/4KvX1Ls/fork-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RYrsjKh)
Thanks very much indeed, Julian and Pete, for the photos. Very good of you to take the trouble to do that. I eventually found the split and tried opening it with a screwdriver whilst my wife donked the tool with the club hammer, but no luck. After a while I hit it harder and it moved. I then opened the split again and out it came. Hooray! I guess it's natural to be reluctant to use a hammer too enthusiastically when you're not very sure what you're doing!
Anyway, onwards. I expect I'll be back, picking your brains, when I strip it down!
Thanks again.
Phil
congratulaions!
the tool you have will come in handy when you put t back together. :D
Wasn't long before I was back asking more questions, was it?
I have undone the oil seal holder, using the tool with the two dogs on it (needed the hot air gun as well) but the seal holder doesn't slide off the end. It only slides part way (see photo), until it meets an increase in the diameter of the stanchion. So obviously it needs to slide off the other way, which means I have to remove the stanchion from the slider. Preventing me doing that is a wire spring clip just inside the slider. It's like a circlip but without the eyes at each end, and as it's a pretty strong spring it's hard to get out. I've tried with a scriber but had no joy. Is there a secret?
Phil
It slides off the bottom. Usual method is to hold the top part I stanchion in a vice, then sharply yank the fork slider down.
Repeat it a few times and the slider should come off the stanchion
Even with the circlip in there? Surely not?
You need to remove the circlip. It is usually difficult and has to be prised out. Try a thin screw drive or similar.
Thanks. Got it out just now, using a scriber and thin screwdriver. Satisfying.
Well done it is not easy!!
Normally with circlips like those, you may need two small screwdrivers: one to lever out one end of the circlip and the other to slip between it and the fork slider. Once you have the 2nd screw driver behind the end of the circlip, you can then repeat the process moving along the circlip until you can prise it free.
No secret - it is a pain to do!
Once out you can separate the 2 halves and the top bush will come out. You can then start dismantling so you can get the seal holder out. Then reverse the process. You may find the top bush needs some encouragement to seat back into the lower fork leg. Don't use anything sharp. I use a bit of wooden doweling to seat.
Good luck!
Me again. Next problem: to get the bushes off the stanchion I need to get the nut off of the bottom of the stanchion. It's pretty tight on. Holding the stanchion pretty tightly in a vice and trying to turn the nut, the stanchion just turns in the vice. I don't want to heave too hard on the vice, in case I damage the stanchion. I'm not sure how thick the stanchion wall is, but I wouldn't want to squeeze it out of round. People have obviously undone these nuts many times. Any advice please? Phil
BTW, re my previous post, I don't have a lathe. Or a strap wrench. Phil
I doubt if you'll deform the stanchion but you will damage the chrome if you are not careful. Problem is that you will not be able to clamp it tight enough in the vice to be able to unscrew the nut using a steady torque. The technique I've used is to first apply heat to the stanchion (not the nut) and then, using a long adjustable wrench on the nut, apply a sharp tap to the end of the wrench. As with the fork top nut previously, you have to apply a big enough impulse to start the nut turning.
Although I've never needed to do it this way, the alternative is to clamp the legs back in the yokes - with a bit of luck the bottom yoke clamp will be sufficient to stop the stanchion from turning.
Last year I did some forks from a Shooting Star, very similar to your's. I had the same problem even using 2ft stillsons the nut would not turn. As the PO had Loctited the tapers into the top yoke I guessed he had done the same with the nut. A lot of heat applied and it came undone and yes he had coated the threads with Loctite.
Thing is, a vice doesn't grip a round surface very efficiently, so I don't need to swing on a spanner very hard, or give it much of a shock, before the stanchion turns in the vice. Phil
Put the leg temporarily back into the yoke and tighten the lower pinch bolt. You should be able to undo the lower nut.
Yes, I'll try that.
Btw, people talk about the lower pinch bolt. as far as i can see, there is only a lower one. I don't see an upper one. (or is that why I had difficulty removing the leg?! :-\)
Phil
Some forks have pinch bolts on both yokes. You only have one on the bottom yoke.
I can't remember a problem undoing the nut. If very tight, can you not take it to someone with an impact gun and get them to undo it?
An impact gun would do the job very easily but, unfortunately, you can't fit a socket to the bottom fork nut because it is only fitted with two flats (if I remember correctly). As said earlier, just clamp the stanchion in the lower yoke and then shock the end of the spanner/wrench with a mallet if necessary!
Hi,
I agree with clamping the stanchion in the yolk. If this is not possible the nut can clamped in a vice (with good jaws) and a pipe wrench used on the stanchion that has been wrapped in a rag bandage to prevent damage. The longer the wrench the better so that the use of a hammer to shock it is avoided. Care is need as the nut is not very deep and could slip if not kept perpendicular to the vice jaws. Perhaps not the best method but it does work.
Dave.
Can't knock Kidderminster Motorcycles. Ordered two oil seals by phone yesterday, and they've just popped through my letterbox.
Phil
Evening everyone,
Clamping it in the yoke and giving it the shock treatment worked. Thanks. It's now all stripped down. The twine seal came off easily. I'm tempted to use twine again, but might just use twisted PTFE tape, as I guess it's more effective. Doesn't feel to be any play on the bushes, and all appears okay. So I guess I'll fit a new oil seal and reassemble. I'm still none the wiser as to what caused the oil/grease run on the outside of the brake plate (it didn't happen again) but when I drained the forks there was less came out than I put in, so I guess there has been a leak somewhere. A new seal might help I guess.
Before I reassemble I need to decide whether to replace the oil seal holder on the other fork (in which case I'd do both) which of course I'll he taking off next. You can see on the photo that the chrome has been rubbed off it. I don't know how. When I compress the fork it doesn't seem to be rubbing. I guess it's only a cosmetic issue, so I might not renew it. Or maybe...
Phil
When I peer down into the slider, I see something sticking up an inch or two. What is it? It's quite hard to see it clearly, as the torch light dazzles against the oily surface and it's quite hard to get a focus on it. Phil
What you can see is a cone to stop the forks bottoming. Oil in the fork legs is forced into the stanchions through the hole in the bottom nut by the cone so dampening the bottoming out.
Thanks Idie. Not quite sure exactly how it works, but at least I know what it is.
Had a good idea about my worm seal holder (btw, to clarify, it was like that when I bought the bike a few years ago), I might find one at the Bristol Show jumble in late Feb! Even if I don't, it will be fun looking. As long as Shepton Mallett isn't the coldest place on the planet that day, as it seems to have a tendency to be. I've discovered seal holders are pretty expensive to buy new. Anyway, for now I'll just stick with what I've got.
Phil
The seal holder has been rubbing on the fork shroud or "trousers".
Very common to find. Usually the metal of the shroud gets bent during removal or gets extra paint if painted or powder coated. Fit a new seal holder and the same thing will happen!
When refitting the forks, after the top nuts have been fitted and the wheel has been fitted undo the bottom yoke bolts and the headstock locking nut and bounce the forks up and down a few times to centralise them. You may still get a bit of catching but as long as the fork movement is not restricted I wouldn't worry too much about it.
I think the running must be historic. I had a look to see if it was rubbing and it didn't seem to be. Maybe from long ago.
Anyway, when I refit, I might have more questions. Almost certainly.
Learning all the time though.
Phil
The clip is even harder to get back in than it was to get out. Phil
In now.
But will have to come out again as there's now a burr on it which prevents the slider going over the bottom bush :(
Okay, sorted. Must stop putting every little thing on this forum! Phil
Quote from: AdrianS on 08 Feb, 2022, 08:10
The seal holder has been rubbing on the fork shroud or "trousers".
Very common to find. Usually the metal of the shroud gets bent during removal or gets extra paint if painted or powder coated. Fit a new seal holder and the same thing will happen!
When refitting the forks, after the top nuts have been fitted and the wheel has been fitted undo the bottom yoke bolts and the headstock locking nut and bounce the forks up and down a few times to centralise them. You may still get a bit of catching but as long as the fork movement is not restricted I wouldn't worry too much about it.
When you say the headstock locking nut, do you mean the top yoke pinch bolt? Or the steering stem top nut?
Usually if you don't tighten the top nuts up tight, bottom pinch bolts slightly undone, and possibly loosen the wheel cap bolts slightly, then bounce the suspension a few times to locate everything before carefully tightening all bolts up. I have had to loosen the top yoke bolt in the past to get everything to align if everything isn't free.