Author Topic: B series cup and cone swap for bearings.  (Read 935 times)

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DOIVEY

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Re: B series cup and cone swap for bearings.
« Reply #15 on: 24 December, 2018, 13:46:08 »
See attached for home made top hat puller and pusher etcc...
If it has been made before, it can be made again.

DOIVEY

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Re: B series cup and cone swap for bearings.
« Reply #16 on: 24 December, 2018, 13:47:58 »
Lastly see attched for the knurled washers in situ

regards all
D
If it has been made before, it can be made again.

Rupert

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Re: B series cup and cone swap for bearings.
« Reply #17 on: 30 December, 2018, 11:40:16 »
Hi D, many thanks for your details on rebushing the forks, interesting stuff.
I also looked at oilite bushes as an easy solution but looked into it and read that oilite doesn't last as long as solid in this application? I bought some solid bronze bar and tuned 4 new bushes for the yokes as per the originals instead of being bored over Christmas. I have a press so pushing them in was no problem, then line reamed afterwards. Still got the 4 to do on the girder. I found some 1/2" en16 studs on eBay threaded unf 20tpi on both ends so am aiming to use them as a basis for the spindles (run a 20tpi cycle die down the thread to make sure it is compatible).
Likewise the plain holes and faces of the links are worn. Aiming to build the worn areas up with braze before linishing flat and re-drilling. I'm hoping that the remaining layer of braze may be a better bearing surface than the original steel/steel. BSA could have done it better but why bother on bargain basement forks?
Thanks for all your help so far and happy new year.
Rupert.
Thanks for the lead on the friction discs, I've seen some in passing but haven't really looked into this yet.

DOIVEY

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Re: B series cup and cone swap for bearings.
« Reply #18 on: 31 December, 2018, 14:50:24 »
Hi Rupert,

Aha didn't know that about oilite vs bronze bushes, i went with something off the shelf.
i'll read up on that.
will keep an eye on them for wear.
i like the idea of brazing the straps and re-drilling.
went for a spin today and my mate following me mentioned my back wheel moving a bit on the way back so its off the road til i have done the bearings now.
cheers for the info.
happy new year
D
If it has been made before, it can be made again.

Rupert

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Re: B series cup and cone swap for bearings.
« Reply #19 on: 23 January, 2019, 19:55:13 »
Hi, just received the long awaited taper roller rear wheel bearings from draganfly. They look like a nice job. Off the shelf taper roller bearing which looks to have the o/d ground down and an internal insert to reduce the I/d and replicate the length of the original cone. Haven't tried fitting them yet...
Rupert

DOIVEY

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Re: B series cup and cone swap for bearings.
« Reply #20 on: 24 January, 2019, 21:17:02 »
Hi,
Sounds like some action at last, send some pictures if poss,

Let us know how you get on, process of changing them etc...


Cheers
D


If it has been made before, it can be made again.

Rupert

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Re: B series cup and cone swap for bearings.
« Reply #21 on: 30 January, 2019, 17:58:41 »
Hi, bearing shown is marked MSB 32004X

DOIVEY

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Re: B series cup and cone swap for bearings.
« Reply #22 on: 31 January, 2019, 20:10:59 »
Looking good, you'll be green laneing soon.

Have some on order from dragonfly arrived today,

looking at trial fit front wheel Saturday eve albeit a tad chilly in the workshop at the mo.

let us know how you get on will do likewise

good luck

D
If it has been made before, it can be made again.

DOIVEY

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Re: B series cup and cone swap for bearings.
« Reply #23 on: 04 February, 2019, 22:17:20 »
Hi Rupert,

Finished fitting the front bearings fit this eve. (started Sunday)
initially had a problem with identifying two spacers under the cups in the hub but it was pointed out to me they were probably fitted later to alleviate wear in the cups and cones as they were very bad.  No spacers in the parts book so home-brew after market fit.

They were that bad the grease was silver as the bearings had degraded that much.

The spindle had to be rerun with the die to clear the thread from years of abuse, after that the bearings ran on lovely.

On the dry fit the bearings did not tighten up enough so the threads on the spindle had to be cut in further on both sides equally.

After that it all went swimmingly, front wheel on and sorted.

back wheel next......the really bad one.

Keep chipping away.

D

If it has been made before, it can be made again.

Rupert

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Re: B series cup and cone swap for bearings.
« Reply #24 on: 27 February, 2019, 18:07:15 »
Hi doivey, could I please trouble you for a little help?
If and when you have time could you give me a measurement for the rear wheel rim offset on your B20, maybe to the inner or outer surface of the sprocket as that would probably be easiest without disturbing anything? I'm assuming you have standard wm2 rear rim?
My rear wheel was in quite a state and I don't trust it to be true and accurate.
Also, as I've never had my bike in one piece to check, what's your opinion on the possibility of fitting a  wm3 rear rim and possibly bigger section rear tyre as used on the B25 competition model? What's the clearance like with your standard set up between tyre and chain guard/ rear mudguard?
Any thoughts are much appreciated.
Rupert.

DOIVEY

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Re: B series cup and cone swap for bearings.
« Reply #25 on: 28 February, 2019, 18:52:47 »
Hi Rupert,

I wil get some measurements to you hopefully over the weekend.
I did have the same offset issue with my front wheel when i had it rebuilt. i initially realised i had a problem when the front wheel kept on turning a little more after the brake was applied. On investigation the spokes were very loose and i could push, pull and turn the hub (by hand !!).  i ended up giving Paul at PWWheels in Herne bay the front end forks n all.  Paul sorted it lovely.
As for tyre size I'm not sure the max size for a WM2 rim but i will check my tyre and clearance to chain guard /chain etc.
K70 3.25 Front & 3.5 or 4.0 on rear.
As an aside... if you don't quite get your offset correct you can continue the threads on the spindle when you fit the taper bearings to allow for tolerance errors as i had to do this on mine last week when i fitted the front taper bearings. Also the same bearings are used in the rear also, i found that out late one eve but Dragonfly were great and swapped them and discounted the return post too. the ones i used are 29-5700TR & 29-5702TR

I also found a spacers in my hubs too to offset the wear of the cup and cones so look out for those too, they are not in the parts book.

Speak soon
Doive
If it has been made before, it can be made again.

Rupert

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Re: B series cup and cone swap for bearings.
« Reply #26 on: 01 March, 2019, 10:23:12 »
Many thanks for that, all interesting stuff re the bearings.
The usual rule with tyre sizes is up to 3.5 on a wm2 rim so if there is enough space with the mudguard and chain guard to accommodate a 4.0 inch tyre I would fit a wm3 rim to suit it.
The parts book shows a wm3 rear rim for the B25 competition model so I'm hoping there won't be a clearance issue?
Many thanks for offering to do some measuring.
Regards, Rupert.

Rupert

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Re: B series cup and cone swap for bearings.
« Reply #27 on: 04 March, 2019, 16:58:22 »
Hi, I've just had an afternoon fitting the taper roller bearings from draganfly to the rear hub, which we've talked about earlier on this thread.
Outer races fitted perfectly ok.
A few issues with the threaded sleeves inside the bearing inners -
The internal counterbore seemed to be binding slightly on the peaks of the spindle thread, overcome by boring the hole out slightly.
No problem with o/s bearing inner.
N/s bearing inner held the brakeplate a good 1/8" too far outboard. To overcome this meant shortening the inner sleeve in three places from its inner end; the outside shoulder, the spigot and the internal thread by counterboring it deeper.
The other issue which I havnt rectified yet is that the felt seal holder assembly on each side is prevented from going fully home in the hub as it hits the inner bearing race first...
May see if an off the shelf oil seal is available as a replacement.
Regards, Rupert.

DOIVEY

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Re: B series cup and cone swap for bearings.
« Reply #28 on: 12 March, 2019, 20:02:31 »
Hi Rupert,
Regards the problems you had with the binding i overcome by increasing the thread length on the spindle and running a 20tpi tap down the bore a the thread ran out when i looked at it closely. this is equivalent to you boring out the bit that you did.
i ended up running a die down the spindle too as the thread needed redefining to fit the new bearing inner as it had a severe tight spot on both sides.
regards the felt seal holder mine went in perfectly flush with the hub and the bearing inner poking thru so it was adjustable.  i would check that your outer races have gone right into the inner shoulder in the hub..

Regards the tyres and rim offsets
i have checked and i have a 3.5 x 19 on the rear.
the offset from the hub edge to the rim is 25mm and should be equal on both sides as the rim is laced to the hub on both side and the drum riveted onto it.  unlike the front where its laced to the brake drum outer.
the distance from the rim to the chain guard is 22mm
the distance from the tyre outer to chain guard is 10mm
the distance from the tyre to the inner rim of the mudguard is 25mm.
may be worth going with a smaller but more knobbly tyre if you going to green lane it.
I have some pictures to upload which i shall hopefully do at work tomorrow time allowing.

if you need more measurements, let me know, hope this info helps.
Keep chipping away.
regards
D
If it has been made before, it can be made again.

Rupert

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Re: B series cup and cone swap for bearings.
« Reply #29 on: 15 March, 2019, 21:17:38 »
Hi doivey, very many thanks for taking the measurements. It seems that a wm3 rear rim should be ok but a full size 4" rear tyre maybe a problem. Possibly a smaller section tyre instead but I'll look at that when the time comes.

Since my last message after fitting the taper roller bearings to the rear hub I've done a bit more research and head scratching. I reckon the brake side cone is holding the brakeplate too far outboard by maybe 1/16" so I'll look at turning back the outer shoulder on which the brakeplate sits.
Re the oilseal issue, the bearing outers are fully home in the hub as I used a press to fit them and could tell exactly when they seated on the shoulders in the hub. The seal assembly is definitely resting on the end of the bearing inner, with the sleeve protruding through the seal as it should. Resting on the bearing inner in this way means the seal cups are level with the ends of the hub, whereas they should be positioned about 1/8" below the ends of the hub, below the level of the internal chamfers in the hub ends.
Nothing that can't be fixed.
Regards, Rupert.