Author Topic: Changing taxation class to historic  (Read 2278 times)

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berniej

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Changing taxation class to historic
« on: 02 June, 2018, 17:15:12 »
Under the new 40 year rule a number of already registered bikes will be eligible to have their taxation class changed to historic, reducing the road fund licence cost to £0 and removing the need for an MOT (hurrah!). However, there can be obstacles and I wonder if anyone has any thoughts on the one that I've tripped over please....

I've just acquired a C15 complete basket case for a total restoration, it hasn't been on the road for 30+ years.
The good bit is that it had a V5C that matched the frame number.
The V5C also showed it having an identical engine number which I thought odd for a 1967 bike and in fact the engine fitted has a different number.

The challenge I have with getting the tax class changed is that although the 'first registered' date is in 1967 the date of manufacture is blank. I've spoken to DVLA who have told me that I'll need a dating certificate in order to complete that info. I pointed out that it was unlikely to have been built after it was first registered but that logic wasn't any help with the folks at DVLA (DVLS?) and seems I need that certificate and so a letter to Steve Foden is likely the next step.

However, the frame number on both the bike and V5C starts with C15F. According to all the info I've found in the public domain this isn't right. Whilst good for a '67 engine there were no 'F' suffixes on the frame numbers so I'm left wondering what it is I have here!

I will likely send off a request for the dating service but wondered if anyone has any thoughts as to how I can have a bike with a V5C that seems to show an invalid frame number?

Many thanks for any thoughts.
Bernie
« Last Edit: 02 June, 2018, 17:48:15 by berniej »
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Re: Changing taxation class to historic
« Reply #1 on: 02 June, 2018, 18:12:25 »
Take the V5 to a DVLA Post Office and see if they will let you do it on Section 7 of the log book, might work.

JulianS

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Re: Changing taxation class to historic
« Reply #2 on: 02 June, 2018, 18:30:26 »
Just checked my V5C - only got date of first registration. No space for date of manufacture. If the 2 differ the manufacture date is usually on the front under "special notes"

Try the post office is good advice.

If your frame number prefix was not issued by BSA you will probably find it cannot be dated.

berniej

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Re: Changing taxation class to historic
« Reply #3 on: 02 June, 2018, 18:55:56 »
Thanks, I'll try the post office and report back!

The frame number is a puzzle. I guess it could have been faked and restamped at some point but wonder why someone would bother - especially on a C15 (no disrespect intended but you know what I mean!) And, if so, why not choose a valid prefix? Any thoughts on how it could still be a valid number?

Thanks,
Bernie
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JulianS

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Re: Changing taxation class to historic
« Reply #4 on: 02 June, 2018, 19:58:11 »
The main thing is that you already have a V5C.

AWJDThumper

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Re: Changing taxation class to historic
« Reply #5 on: 02 June, 2018, 20:51:21 »
I suspect that 30+ years ago it was a lot easier to get a V5C than it is today. It's also a lot easier to change the frame number to match the engine number rather than the other way round. Unfortunately, the person who stamped the number on the frame probably assumed that for a '67 C15 the number were supposed to exactly match not realising that BSA didn't use the date letter on the frame. If this is what happened, the frame and machine can't be dated and you won't get it changed to Historic class.

bikerbob

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Re: Changing taxation class to historic
« Reply #6 on: 03 June, 2018, 11:02:03 »
People do some really strange things to bikes, about 10 years ago I bought a complete BSA C12 except for the seat also with the deal came another C12 in bits minus the mudguards no paperwork.. Now the complete C12 still had what looked like the original number plate so I was thinking to go down the route of reclaiming the original registration, but on examining the frame number some idiot in the distant past had stamped the frame with a C15 frame number why? Bang went any hope of original registration. I ended up using the frame from the dismantled bike with the engine from the whole bike and obtained an age related number.

MALCOLM.JOHNSON

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Re: Changing taxation class to historic
« Reply #7 on: 05 June, 2018, 11:06:30 »
Only yesterday my pal took his V5C to the PO to tax and change his taxation class to historic and tax the bike. PO assistant.... "Have you filled in form V112"...."No"...."You need to do that first, cannot do it without one".... "Can you give me one please".... "No sorry they have not arrived here at the PO yet, you can download one off the internet"...."I have not got a printer".... "Try the library".  An hour later, after walking up to the library, had to join the library (for free), the assistant there did the necessary and printed one off for 20p. Returns to the PO and sees the same assistant, who then processes his forms, retains the V5C to be amended by the DVLA and returns the V112 to my pal. "No you need this form" says my pal...."No , I only need to see it, you can now bin it if you wish" ............ are we missing something here?

berniej

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Re: Changing taxation class to historic
« Reply #8 on: 07 June, 2018, 09:29:18 »
 :) I went into a P.O. yesterday to enquire up front about trying exactly the same thing.
I thought that if I do a dry run I can at least be sure that it will be a smooth process when I go back for real and avoid any frustrating experiences (yeah right).

They said something similar - that they just needed to see a signature on a V112 but would then return it - sounds completely daft but I guess it's just some form of declaration that needs to be made.

They then said that they'd process the application and send it off to DVLA - I just hope it doesn't end up being rejected for the same reasons given by the chap who I spoke to there - can't remember his name but it might have been Kermit, or Fozzie, or Gonzo....

I'll update again with news from next week's exciting episode....

Cheers,
Bernie
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berniej

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Re: Changing taxation class to historic
« Reply #9 on: 13 June, 2018, 10:35:39 »
Quick update - I think that the Post Office option might have worked! Despite DVLA telling me that it needed a dating certificate the chap in the P.O. was happy with just the V5C and V112 and sent it off.

I haven't had it back yet but just did an online 'vehicle check' and it now shows as 'taxed' so I'm thinking that I might be in luck....

Cheers,
Bernie
'49 M21/B31 hybrid
'56 M21 combination
B40 Super Star
A50CC project

A10 JWO

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Re: Changing taxation class to historic
« Reply #10 on: 13 June, 2018, 16:37:01 »
The Post Office checked my signature was present on the V112 and gave it back, quote, "we don't need to keep that form ".

RESTORER

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Re: Changing taxation class to historic
« Reply #11 on: 14 June, 2018, 20:04:25 »
My A10 is 1954 and about 90% restored, but following the advice in the Star I applied to DVLA to have the taxation class changed from unlicensed to historic vehicle now rather than later. They told me that this can only be done by submitting the V5C with the tax application form and the process would take 4 weeks. This was on May 7th, so I did not hold out much hope for meeting the deadline. I duly submitted the form, and explained that I did not require the tax and the sole purpose of the application was to change the taxation class before the deadline.  My V5C was returned within a few days with the taxation class changed, closely followed by a receipt for £0.00 and a note saying that my bike is next due for re-taxing April 2019.  Thanks Ed. (and of course the DVLA).
Restorer.
1954 A10 Golden Flash, Swinging Arm

berniej

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Re: Changing taxation class to historic
« Reply #12 on: 02 July, 2018, 13:07:52 »
Success!

So, after being told by DVLA on the phone that it couldn't be done without a dating certificate I just applied for tax and a change of class at the P.O. as previously advised and have just received the V5C back with the class as HISTORIC.

If at first you don't succeed....

The final challenge will now be to get them to change the incorrect engine number to what I have without being difficult.
Hopefully the historic class will make this easier.

Cheers,
Bernie
'49 M21/B31 hybrid
'56 M21 combination
B40 Super Star
A50CC project

Mike Farmer

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Re: Changing taxation class to historic
« Reply #13 on: 02 July, 2018, 15:11:52 »
 :)

Changing the engine No should not be any problem at all. It happens all the time.

Just put the new detail in the "Changes Section" of the V5C and send it to DVLA.

Mike 8) 8) 8)

berniej

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Re: Changing taxation class to historic
« Reply #14 on: 03 July, 2018, 18:40:35 »
Thanks Mike, I'll do that.

Cheers,
Bernie
'49 M21/B31 hybrid
'56 M21 combination
B40 Super Star
A50CC project