indicator problem

[bikerbob]

The numbers you are looking at are for the oil in frame later models the part number for my bike is19-775 the number you are looking at is 19-1904, two entirely diiferent switches.

[DAVE BRADY]

Hi,

This is the wiring diagram for the 1970 B25 with the indicator wires (dotted line) in the harness but does not show how they are connected to the switch.  On other diagrams for post 1970 they show the indicators connected to the same terminal as the stop light.

Dave.

[Mike40M]

As someone already said, likely a bad ground problem. Other bulbs varying in sync with indicators. I've fixed it dozens of times, mostly on trailers.
Never experienced it but a bad connector or even a too thin wire could be the case. CRC5-56 or maybe WD40 is your best friend.

[bikerbob]

This certainly not an earth problem all earth wires on the bike have been replaced and all go to  a central earthing point. I did all this some time ago because I did at first suspect an earthing problem as in years ago I have had earthing problems when wiring trailers and boat trailers to cars that I owned.
I may have come up with a solution for this problem which I would like advice on. I was thinking if you disconnect the live battery terminal then nothing works. So if I take the 3 terminals on the back of the ignition switch and connect them together then they would be live all the time. The bike is positive earth  so take the negative terminal it has 2 wires one is the normal wire the other is from the relay and connect them to the output terminals on the ignition switch, take another wire from the battery and connect to the input connection on the ignition switch. So basically the ignition switch will be tur ning the battery on and off. I do not see any problem with this not working as at the moment everything is working Ok I will be just switching the battery on and off through the keyed ignition switch. Am I missing something here it all sounds too easy.

[DAVE BRADY]

Hi Bob,

I have indicators on both of my A65s, a '68 and a'69/'70, and they both have the simple switch with just an on off function and three terminals on the back.  One for power in and the other two for power out.
So what you are suggesting should work.
Without taking it off to have look I think I used one output terminal to go forwards to the head light and the other backwards for stop/tail and ignition.
I will have a look in the head light shell later but I am quite sure I connected the indicators to a terminal on the 3 position light switch.  Even when in the off position one of the terminals is live.

Dave.

[bikerbob]

Thanks for that info Dave I am going to give my suggestion a go but I will not be able to try it until maybe Saturday But when I do I will come back and give an update

[MadPete]

Wow! This IS intriguing. I am trying to imagine what sort of circuit gives the reported results...

So at the moment there are 2 powered circuits of interest. The old normal circuit that (1) connects battery to the ignition switch and thence to all other electrical equipment/lights. Then we have the additional wiring that (2) connects the battery to the relay and then to the indicator switch and thence to the blinkers. This configuration works as expected.

If the connection (2) is removed from the battery and connected to the switched(output) terminal of the ignition switch then the lights all flash at the same time as the indicators. Is that right? Do all the lights flash - including speedo light - when either indicator is activated?

What happens it you connect (2) to the powered side of the ignition switch - in effect replicating the connection to the battery by a different route? Do the indicator and lights still flash on?

If you are not connecting (2) to the ignition switch but another switch then which which switch/terminal are you connecting the relay power-in cable(2) to?

@bikerbob: can you post a picture of your ignition switch and your lighting switch(es) so we can observe what we are trying to discuss? As you say this should be a straight forward problem to solve and you have already shown the system can work in one configuration. How the relay flasher is switching the whole lighting circuit is interesting. It is either in series (hence the expected relay on/off action) or it is shorting and stopping the lights by that action - but then I would expect the fuse to blow. So if the lights flash it is probably because the relay is somehow wired in series with the lamps and the blinkers.

EDIT: I can't find reference to BSA part number: 19-775 is this an ignition switch,a lucas triple position light switch or what?

[bikerbob]

 I got back early today so I went into the garage and temporarily wired up as I suggested in my last post essentailly wiring the battery to the ignition switch so that the igntion switch turns the battery on and off, the three wires that were attached to the back of the igntion switch I joined together. Everything now works as I would like it. Igntion off nothing works, turn igntion on and everything works as I want it to lights igntion indicators and the indicators do not affect the lights. The ignition switch is in a very awkward place under the rear of the petrol tank just above the air cleaner you cannot photograph it to show switch and connections. the light swiitch is just a plain toggle switch fitted in the headlight once to the left pilot circuit once again to the left headlight circuit.

 I will try to explain simply what I have done, there are three terminals on the back of the ignition switch. First one is live feed in, second terminal connects to the igntion circuit third terminal is the lighting circuit including rear stop light. when you turn the key it justs connects all three terminls together. when I first fiited the indicators I connected the relay to the lighting terminal on the back of the switch the other relay wire goes to the indicator switch and the to the actual indicators.When you turn the ignition switch on the lights and indicators work pefectly provided you do not turn both on together if both on together all lights including the stop light and speedo light all flash in sync with the indictors. To correct this I disconnected the relay wire from the back of the ignition switch and through an inline fuse connected it to the live terminal of the battery, this made the indicators seperate from the lighting circuit so now when both lights and idicators are on the lights do not flash in sync with the indictors. But this means that the indictors are live all the time which is not what I want.

What I have done today in a temporary fashion is to take all three terminals off the back of the ignition switch and connect them all togther this makes ignition and lighting circuits live. but to counteract this I have disconnected the live terminals from the battery there were 2 wires one is the normal battery feed this I connected to the second terminal on the ignition switch the other wire witch is from the indicatot relay  -I connected to the third terminal on the ignition switch. I then ran a new wire from the live terminal on the battery to the first terminal on the igntion switch. So now with ignition off nothing on the bike works but switch the key on and everything now works as it should lights indicators and ignition circuit and the indicators do not now affect the lights. Basically what I have done is put the live wires from the battery through the keyed ignition switch.

I myself do not see any problem with this setup. but I am not an electrcal person so can anyone see  any problems if not I will do a proper job of the wiring.  MadPete the part number for my ignition switch is 19-1775 you missed the 1 out this is from the correct parts catalogue.

[MadPete]

OK. I think I can follow that. The battery should normally be isolated by the ignition switch (and fuse/s)  from the rest of the electrics on a B25. So the set up that you describe as working is what I would expect.

So back to the 19-1775 switch. It is a simple 2 pole key switch. It has four spade connectors on the back (or it usually does). The wire from the battery should connect to one end and the ignition and lighting wires should connect to the opposite two - on the opposite side from the battery wire. Then the switch will open and close the power connection to the ignition and lighting circuits. So on the back of the ignition switch there is no real place for the wire to the flasher relay.

You could connect the flasher relay wire to the spare connector (next to the batter wire) and it should work but it will be powered up all the time and your indicators will work with the ignition key removed.

So now it would be useful to have another "switched live" spade connector further along the circuit. There is obviously a live wire running from the ignition switch to the lighting switch. Is there a spare spade connector on the light switch? Is the light switch the usual Lucas three position toggle switch? Like this one:
https://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/p/lucas-31788-57sa-off-ona-on-a-b
if so we can probably rig it - depending on what else is on it. If this is standard Lucas 31788 then there are 7 spade connectors. The power in is on spade terminal 1 (by itself). Spade terminal 7 is a passthrough so you should be able to connect your relay wire to terminal 7 on the switch. That should be directly opposite terminal 1.

I am presuming of course that suitable connectors terminate all wires - and all wires are "log enough to reach".

Alternative you could just use a double bullet connector (or similar) to splice the power out (either ignition or lighting cable) to your relay wire.

Phew. Time for beer....

[MadPete]

... the part number for my bike is19-775 ...

Sorry, I just took what you wrote as a search term. I did eventually figure it out before writing my last post.

Having read your description (above) of what you did I think that is basically the same as what I was proposing - join all three together and connect to one side of the switch and the other side to the wire from the battery. I hope it proves to work OK and it gives you long and useful service. :0)

[bikerbob]

Have been checking the part numbers for the Starfire upto 1970 the igntion switch was part number19-1775 that has 3 spade connectors on the back, but in 1971 wwich was the last year for the Starfire it was then an oil in frame model so all electrics changed the igntion switch then became part number 19-1904 which is also the part number for the oil in frame A65.
 I am now going to properly wire it up as I have outlined and  try it out for a while and see how it goes I do not forsee any problems but if there are I can  always go back and have the indicators wired seperate from the ignition switch. If in the unlikely event something does go wrong then I will come back let you all know. Thanks to all for help and advice good to know that there  are people out there prepared tpo give up their time to help.