indicator problem

[bikerbob]

I have a 1970 Starfire I have fitted indicators and have wired the relay to the lights terminal on the igntion switch but what this does is it makes the lights flash in unison with the indicators. The indicator switch is operated by a key and has 3 terminals on the back one is the live input and the other 2 are for the ignition  and the lights, so when you turn the key it just connects all 3 terminals together. I have now wired the indicators seperate from the switch and everything works OK. I would however like to have the indictors going through a keyed igntion switch that would operate the indicators lights and ignition but do not know how to go about this I have seen numerous switches on ebay that are key operated but do not know if any would suit my purpose can someone please advise how I might achieve this . thankyou.

[Derek996]

I can't recommend a switch but I can tell you why you have the problem with the lights flashing with the indicators. There is a resistance in the switch contacts, probably oxidation over the years. This results in a voltage drop so the lights probably aren't as bright as they should be. When the indicator come on the increased load causes the voltage to drop further resulting in the lights dimming in time with the indicators.
Possibly replacing the switch with a new like for like one would resolve the problem.

[bikerbob]

I believe the problem is that I connected the relay to the output light terminal on the ignition switch this caused the lights to flash in sync with the indicators. The lights do not dim at all they just flash in sync the same is true of the stop light.I have fitted a seperate switch on the handlebars that controls the high-low beam also the indicators and the horn but it does not go through the ignition switch, everything works perfecty the indicators do not affect the lights at all. I have checked all voltages to the lights all OK everything is earthed correctly indicators have their own earths.What I am trying to achieve is something that I had on a1963 A65 some 15 years ago where I fitted indicators that went through the ignition switch and they did not affect the lights but I cannot remember if the lights also went through the ignition switch. As I said earlier the original Igntion switch just acts like a basic toggle switch it just connects all 3 terminals only you use a lever instead of a key.  I even tried using a toggle switch I connected the lights igntion and relay to one terminal and the other to the live input then switch on, THe indicators work OK the lights work Ok and the ignition works OK but put the indicators and the lights on together and they all flash in sync.

[Derek996]

As you have described it the lighting circuit and the indicator circuit are in parallel Unless the lights were wired downstream of the flasher relay (in series) there is no way that the lights could flash on/off with the indicators. The fact that you now have a separate switch for the lights, indicators and horn, bypassing the ignition switch proves that the original fault lies in the ignition switch.

[MadPete]

Is the battery well charged? A weak battery might give similar "low lamp/bright lamp" display with the indicators. If the head and tail lamp actually flash (as in off - on - off) then you have probably got a wring error somewhere. Whatever happens you will need a second power take off from the ignition circuit connector (not the lighting circuit) to power the relay and the blinkers.

[bikerbob]

I believe that I have proved that the ignition swtich is not faulty, it is just a basic on/off switch all it does is connect the live terminal to the ignition circuit and the lighting circuit via a key. As I have said I tried using a normal toggle switch and you get the same reaction. The battery is fully charged and I am not getting"lowlamp/brightlamp" display, when the relay is connected to the lighting connector on the ignition switch and you turn the lights on then the indicators they all flash in unison. So I have now wired the indicators to a seperate switch on the handlebars and the lights and indicators now work perfectly OK it just means that the indicators cannot be switched off via the ignition switch.

[Derek996]

We'll just have to agree to disagree. As long as it works for you that's the main thing. 

[MadPete]

Might I prevail upon bikerbob to make a diagram of his indicator circuit - or even a photo or two. I am intrigued by the reported problem. I love an electrical conundrum. :0)

[Derek996]

Might I prevail upon bikerbob to make a diagram of his indicator circuit - or even a photo or two. I am intrigued by the reported problem. I love an electrical conundrum. :0)

Yes please. I've worked with electrical and electronic devices all my life with an HNC in Electrical and Electronic Engineering and I'm equally intrigued.

[DAVE BRADY]

Hi,

Could it be an earthing problem?

Dave.

[bikerbob]

I am no good at doing electrical drawings I am mainly a mechanical person but I will try and clarify a few things. I have fitted indicators to some bikes in the past without any problems I fitted them to an A10 and also an A65. When I fitted them to the A65 I went through the ignition switch and the indicators would only work with the ignition switched on,This is what I am trying to do with the Starfire. THe problem with the Starfire is the lights also go through the ignition switch, so lights and ignition will only work when ignition is switched on. On the A65 the lights did not go through the ignition switch you just had a normal light switch.At the momentI have a combination switch fitted to the handlebars that controls high/low beams, indicators and horn,this is the same switch that I had fitted to the A65.On the 1970 Starfire indicators were an optional extra so the harness already had 2 wires in it for the indicators these I have used one is for left and one is for right. Where I am now is the indicators are working perfectly and do not affect the lights when both are switched on,but what I would like is the indicators to be also controlled via the ignition switch and it would seem that with the present original ignition switch this cannot be acheieved. As regards earths I have fitted a central earthing point I think they call them star earths all earth wires go to this bracket which is bolted to the frame under the seatThe indicators all have seperate earths.

[Derek996]

I've managed to find and download a wiring diagram for the 1971 B25/B50. It shows a 3 terminal ignition switch with the battery, zenor diode and rectifier output connected to pin 1. The ignition, horn, stop light and indicators connected to pin 2, as I'd expect and the light circuits connected to pin 3.
It uses a 2 pin flasher unit,one terminal connected to pin 1 of the switch, the other to the indicator switch and hence to the indicators.
The owners manual shows 4 positions for the switch :
1. Off
2. Pilot lights
3. Ignition on
4. Ignition and lights.

Bikebob's switch doesn't seem to conform to this. Simply all on or all off.

[MadPete]

That would be my understanding as well but it is not impossible (in different circumstances) to have one power key switch and then the power division is done via the handle bar switches. I must study the diagram above more but my worry is that "extra wiring " has now been added and that may stop a proper diagnosis.

I don't think this is an earthing problem, from first considerations, but lets see.

@bikerbob: How is the indicator switch wired at the moment? How does power get from the battery to the indicator relay and then from that to the handlebar switch? from the handlebar switch the power should be diverted to one or the other sets of indicators - via wiring loom. The circuit is made when the indicator switch is moved -> L/R, the circuit is broken/open when the switch is central.

You say that wiring to the indicator lamps is in the loom already so that should be OK (but it can be checked with a multimeter). Are you using wires from the current loom to connect the relay and the switch gear - or have you added any wires?

EDIT: I have looked at the above wiring diagram and that seems to show what I would expect to find. The power switch has a power and power/lighting option (as well as "off" option). The relay is connected to the power option the relay is then connected to the right handle bar switch unit that house 2(?) switches to activate (1)left and (2)right turn lamps. From this set up I deduce you can have them both on at once. Normally there is a "rocker" 3 position switch for indicators.  No idea what this actually looks like as I have a 1969 Starfire.

@bikerbob: If no diagrams then maybe a few photos from your phone camera? The wiring to the ignition switch and then to the indicator relay and then a photo of the actual indicator switch gear. It might help us visualise the circuit better.

[bikerbob]

At the moment I have taken a wire direct from the battery through an inline fuse to one terminal on the relay, the other wire from the relay goes to the indictor switch on the handlebars then when that is activated it sends power to either right or left indicators the power to the rear indictors is through the existing wires that were fitted in the harness originally but were unused they go from under the seat to the front headlight.The only other additional wires were earth wires that were fitted to each indicator.So at the moment the indictors are independant of the ignition switch. I could if I wished wire the the lights independant of the ignition switch and just use the light switch on the headlight to turn on and off, then I could wire the relay to the ignition switch and have the ignition switch turn indicators and ignition circuits on and via the ignition key.But with such a simple ignition switch I cannot have lghts and indicators together through the orignal keyed ignition switch. I was hoping to maybe buy some kind of keyed switch that would allow me to connect lights indictors and ignition to one switch so that it would be all on or all off. There are numerous keyed switches on ebay with varying numbers of contacts mostly for bikes etc that have starters but some have 3 contacts some 4 or even five, I would assume the 3 contacts would work just the same as my present switch but the ones with 4 or 5 contacts if they just connect things like the 3 contact version then I would be no further forward.

[DAVE BRADY]

Hi,

The ign/power switch is the same part number for the B25 and the A65.

Dave.