BSAOC Dating Certificate, is it worth it?

[Mark Cook]

It's not been an easy battle to get my (BSA WDM20) registered, lots of hoops to jump, climb or stumble through.  Not forgetting just plain luck.
Some people seem to get incomplete bikes that will never run with ease, though you have to question the honesty of those claims.
Who'd imagine there were people in government organizations that are over paid and unable or unwilling to do their job?

Sending in pictures with your application does not seem to be enough.
It was requested that I have a dating certificate from a recognized body.
BSAOC who are they?
So dutifully I comply with yet more requirements and send them off for yet another attempt at a registration.
My honesty is then questioned, by the fact they want to inspect my "running" motorcycle.
More pictures are taken!  What for, they have pictures!  No requirement to start it.
The examiner admitted to knowing nothing about bikes and even stated it wouldn't matter if it had wrong parts, as long as they were BSA.

Finally the sacred piece of paper arrives in the post.  BSA 500 !!!!!! no model stated.
Oh well, how bad can it be?
Insurance decided it had a model type.  It's a 1943 Blue Star!!  Did they even make one then?
I attach a copy of the letter from DVLA after a request to correct their records.
How can I go back in time?
The badge engineered company that now exists holds no drawings or spares for my bike. So how could they have a valid opinion?
Is it me?  Am I the only one?

Mark
   

[Dean Southall]

Mark
if you'd checked the process in advance it might of save you a lot of hassle. The hoops you describle sound pretty standard to me. My M20 (assembled from a pile of bits and not seen paperwork since VE day) went through with only one hiccup. On the telephone advice of a DVLA person I decided not to sent original copy of dating cert, V5 application was declined because I had not sent an original copy of the dating cert.

Getting model designation on your V5 is "fun". I have kept a copy of the letter from DVLA explaining that they do not have  a code (whatever that means) for the BSA Super Rocket and suggestin I write directly to BSA for one! This was a couple of decades before the the new BSA motorcycle company btw.

NOVA certs from HMRC are easier to get and the people much nicer to deal with...blimey!

[Mike Farmer]

 

Hi.

Without doubt first step---Get the BSA dating Certificate. That will tell you if the vehicle has ever been exported therefore whether you need a NOVA Cert(Easy to get , theres lots of previous advice on this site.

To obtain the dating cert you will need to contact the dating officer. He will send to you a questionaire. Fill in said and return it with ALL the requested info and relevant pics.

Dating Officer will send you a dating cert, the relevant DVLA form, and a fools guide to filling in the form. Do EXACTLY what the guide says and send it to DVLA.

If you do it around easter when the world is full of miracles it may go through first time, Probably before they finally issue your registration, they will want the bike inspected. In general terms this is just for the serial No's to be verified and recorded. You will ?? hopefully receive a V5 within a week or so.

There are lots of possible anomallies and downright screw ups in the process. I seriously believe it depends on the experience and diligence of whomsoever's desk it lands on. For me--easiest WDM20 boxabits, straight through. Most difficult---Rebuilt A65 properly imported with NOVA from HMRC. DVLA wanted the original South African veh docs. But even then only a quick sensible letter to explain the situation was sufficient. Yes its a b--l ache at the time.

As for type, I rely on the forum dating notes and if they say my frame No was a Thunderbolt, thats what I call it for insurance etc.

Mike

[Mark Cook]

Your missing the point Mike,

Without a model type, let alone trim version it's just a motorcycle of a particular cubic capacity.

So a simple inspection is all that is required based of the supplied V5.

I've seen I'm not the only one, and I also have another bike with a woolly V5 from many years ago that could easily be converted to almost anything I fancied!
The fact is that I am miffed that the DVLA were to lazy to use the supplied details.

I guess the next one will be insurance, how they worked out it's a 1943 Blue Star I'd like to know!

Mark

[redmelons]

Finally the sacred piece of paper arrives in the post.  BSA 500 !!!!!! no model stated.

BSA
I have a 1960 super rocket engine in a 1960 B33 frame. The V5C just has the make as BSA and the cylinder capacity as 650cc. So that seems to be standard procedure?

[Dripfedfloor]

When I registered a non-BSA with the DVLA it was, apart from the cost, painless. Send photocopy of buff logbook and copy of registration record plus dating certificate. New V5c received about a fortnight later.

[Dean Southall]

From the response I got from DVLA I was led to conclude that the staff member dealing with a the application does not have the option of free text when filling in the boxes on the form/computer but must select from a drop down list or model code.

This would make sense in terms of reducing tryping errors.
In which case you could argue that it was amiss of the specifier/commissioner not to ensure that the list included every model of every vehicle ever made. 

[BILL NELSON]

There's a great deal of confusion apparent in this thread, so to summarise the good bits:
1. obtaining an age-related number for a bike not on the DVLA system is different from re-establishing the previous registration mark for a bike not on the system, but where the owner has "acceptable" proof of the original number - an old number plate won't do.
2. a dating certificate is not the same as a vehicle report for dealing with DVLA.
3. model name codes only exist for vehicle manufactured and logged by the manufacturer since DVLA was computerised. If registering a 350 or 500 Gold Star, do not try to use the new Gold Star 650 code.
4. DVLA have only a basic list of colours - there is no facility for recording manufacturers' sometimes outrageous colour names, so don't be surprised if you paint a bike "Deep Carribean Evening Exotic" and it comes back as "Blue".
5. It's all explained in great detail on the BSAOC website and is freely available to all makes and all owners/restorers/rebfurbishers.

One final point, if the insurer allocates a wrong model name to a bike, that is nothing to do with BSAOC or DVLA. It is vital that the insured person deals with the insurer to correct it, before a claim arises. There is privacy of contract between the insurer and the insured and an obligation on the insured to ensure that the insurer has all the relevant information requested to enable them to assess the risk.

[bikerbob]

First of all the identity of your bike is decided by the frame number, if you get a dating certificate from the BSA owners club you will have to provide engine and frame numbers from that the dating officer will tell you the  date it left the factory which dealer it was delivered to it will also tell you the model of the bike and year also if the engine you have was with that frame when it left the factory. You can call the bike what ever you like but as far as the BSA owners club is concerned it will always be identified by the frame number. Info about geting a dating certificate is provided on this site.

[griffo]

  When you apply to register a bike it advises you it may have to be inspected. So yours gets selected. They are not doubting you it's just to try to keep the idiots and fiddlers out of the market. As long as the correct procedure is followed it's an easy job.. Patience is a virtue and some things take a while while the next chap sails through.. With insurance I've found a phone call to a reputable classic bike insurer saves many an hour and frustration... Griff

[Mark Cook]

Just for the fun of it I had my WM20 Mot'd today.
What a surprise, It's a BSA Unknown!
Before it was registered the MOT certificate stated it was a BSA WM20.

Mark

[bikerbob]

If you want your bike to be registered with the DVLA as a BSA WM20 then you have to prove that to the DVLA with documentary evidence. An MOT does not prove the identity of the bike, all an MOT does is prove that on the day it was tested it met the standard required  to be roadworthy. If a bike is not registered then you can get an MOT using just the frame number, also classic bike insurers will give you insurance for a month because even with a V5 and an MOT without insurance you cannot get it taxed. As said earlier a dating certificate is the only way to get the documenary evidence that will satisfy the DVLA as to the identity of your bike. Unless you have the original RF60 log book or evidence from the local vehicle tax office that originally registered the bike but when everything was taken over by Swansea a lot of local authorities destroyed their records some have retained them, so if your bike has it's original registration number from that you can identify which local authority first registered it and you may be able to get a copy and that. It should satisfy the DVLA but a dating certificate would be easier to obtain.

[Mark Cook]

I don't think you have read the previous posts Bob.

Mark