A65 Rocket gearbox

[Cmcl.1959]

Hi to all again,
I'm still in the process of updating my 1963/64 Rocket and so far have completed the change to 12V electrics, fitted a regulator/rectifier, changed the (damaged) alternator, fitted and set the Pazon electronic ignition and also fitted led bulbs.
I've also fitted a new Monobloc carb as the original had seen better days.
I'm still having gear change issues when running, namely the 4 speed box will change up pretty easily, but coming down it struggles to go from 3rd to 2nd and neutral is very difficult to find. When cold at stand still, shifting is better if I use my hand to operate the gear lever.
I've yet to strip down the clutch to see if that's where the gremlins are and there are signs that it is dragging, but if it is a gearbox issue, can anyone please advise me if any other models gearboxes will fit. I've seen a Thunderbolt one online in good condition, but I don't want to go spending cash on something that won't fit.
Any info gratefully received.

Thanks
Clarke

[AdrianS]

Can’t give you an answer to your gearbox problem but I have the same annoying problem with my A50.
Changes up are smooth and easy and 4th to 3 rd is fine but going down the box to 2nd and first is sometimes a problem.
I stripped the box when rebuilding the engine and found nothing untoward. I gave the gearbox cluster and change mechanism to a British bike expert and he found nothing also.
I just live with it.

[Cmcl.1959]

Hi Adrian,

Thanks. It's just frustrating when you're coming to a junction or traffic lights and you have to keep the clutch in or it'll stall, then you have to try to find neutral.
I did see a video on Youtube of a similar issue and they had the timing side cover and inner gearbox covers off and the gears changed ok by hand but the owner still had the problem once it was put back together.
It's a shame because it spoils a good ride out.
I'll still see if I can adjust the clutch etc.
Thanks again.

Clarke.

[corneg2]

I have a similar problem on my A10 gear box. All gears are fine except going from 4th to 3rd. Often it pops out into a false neutral and/or you can't then go from third to second. You need to go back into fourth and try again. Likewise, I have stripped the box and didn't find anything untoward. I now just have to plan ahead of time knowing that I will probably have to have two attempts to get down the gears... Be interested if there is any knowledge out there on what might be the cause of this.

[AdrianS]

Hi Adrian,

Thanks. It's just frustrating when you're coming to a junction or traffic lights and you have to keep the clutch in or it'll stall, then you have to try to find neutral.
I did see a video on Youtube of a similar issue and they had the timing side cover and inner gearbox covers off and the gears changed ok by hand but the owner still had the problem once it was put back together.
It's a shame because it spoils a good ride out.
I'll still see if I can adjust the clutch etc.
Thanks again.

Clarke.

It always spoils a good ride when you can’t get it in properly!

[A65ROCKET]

It could be the shimming on the gearbox shafts.
Each cog needs to be in its correct place, with the correct clearance to the other cogs.

[DAVE BRADY]

Hi,

On the A50/A65 box the lever return spring can cause an issue if it is not even on both sides.  It will allow the little plungers to return to the slot in the plate one way but not the other.  This means that the plaster can't move properly the next time the lever is moved.  It probably needs a bit of trial and error to get the spring exactly right.  A very rare part to fit is the very late spring cup which has an eccentric hole allowing fine tuning of the spring.  As a start, I would try turning the spring over before trying to bend the spring.  Also, check for wear on the ends of the plungers.  They need to be almost sharp with no rounding or chips.

Dave.

[Cmcl.1959]

Hi Dave,
On later drawings I've seen that the return mechanism is located by a grub screw. Mine moves free on the key so right or wrong I'm going to drill and tap for a small grub screw.
To be honest this is the second bike I've bought from a dealer that has been "restored".  Restored my arse.  I swore after the last bike I wouldn't buy from a dealer again, but I read an article in Classic Bike magazine from a well known dealer extolling the benefits of buying from a them and got sucked in. In future should I buy an old bike then it'll be through someone I know and I'd everyone to do the same.
As a result I've spent hundreds so far fixing problems just to get it running. And it's going to cost a lot more yet.
That's not to say I don't enjoy the maintenance side of owning an old bike, it's just the fact that you're expecting to get a bike that runs right from the day you part with your ( not insubstantial ) cash but end up with a "project".
I'm lucky that I'm an engineer by trade, but  others are not so lucky and end up going to an expensive 3rd party to get their pride and joy sorted.
Anyway, onwards and upwards.

Clarke

 

[AdrianS]

I’ve never bought an old bike ( or car) that was as described!
I bought a B40 described as tired but good for club runs. Didn’t pay a lot for it but bought it unseen from the other side of the country. Required a total rebuild with everything needing to be done - complete engine rebuild  - oil leaks about half a pint a day, swinging arm seized, wheels shot and bearings shot etc etc. The last bike I bought had “everything done” but should have read “ everything to do”!

[JulianS]

Difficulty finding neutral is often a clutch problem.

These service bulletins from the USA do show some possible gearbox problems for the earlier boxes and worth reading.

[Cmcl.1959]

Thanks to everyone for the info. I'll certainly take everything on board.
My gripe the other day came after stripping out the clutch and finding what looks like three different types (or three of the same but in different states of wear) of friction plates. The friction material segments on one were cracked, the others black and badly worn. The plain plates all had signs of rubbing/scoring as though they had not been releasing. The springs are a different length to those in the manual.
So those are more parts I've had to order and replace.
This is the second bike as I've said that I've bought from a dealer, paying top money, thinking I was getting a bike I could get on and ride. Both times I've had to replace so much stuff.
I don't mind getting the tools out, not in the slightest, but it's not what I thought I was buying.
Anyway, thanks again.


Clarke

[DAVE BRADY]

Hi Clarke,

Name the dealer.  Some dealers and suppliers of parts think that we owe them something but it is the other way round.
The data published by the FBHVC shows that the value of the 'classic' vehicle and parts market is huge and there is money to be made in 'restoring/rebuilding' vehicles and making/selling parts.  We as the ultimate financiers of the whole 'classic' scene should and must demand better service.  Name and shame.

Dave.

[Cmcl.1959]

Hi Dave,

I’m not going to name the dealers, the one I bought the Triumph TR6P from is no longer trading under the name I bought it from but I’m pretty sure that they, along with the one I bought the BSA from still have big adverts in Classic Bike magazine. The reason? They’ll just claim “buyer beware” and more than likely get their lawyers onto me.
The Triumph was bought on the promise it was ready to go and would have an mot. The guy delivered it at 10 o’ clock in the dark, claiming they didn’t have time for the mot but give him a ring afterwards and he’ll send me the £15.
In the light of day next morning, I found that there was damage to both exhausts, the front mudguard and the tank was scratched. In other words nothing like the photos.
It took me three months to get the bike going after changing the battery, clutch (complete), the alternator, etc, etc. So many bodges.
The dealer from day one refused to answer my calls, or emails. In the end I gave up trying and ended up spending a lot of time and money, but did end up with a good runner.
The BSA arrived looking lovely and give the previous owner his due money obviously had been spent, but the battery was discharged fully and I needed a replacement just to get it running.
First ride out, continuous stalling, poor brakes and really bad gear changes. A home made key for the ignition. Since then it’s been finding one thing after another.
So far it’s been a nightmare, but I will make it a good bike.

Regards
Clarke

[DAVE BRADY]

Hi Clarke,

I do understand your concerns but as far as I know 'buyer beware' will only apply to auctions and private deals.  A dealer is required to supply merchantable goods and a purchaser is covered by the consumer protection laws just the same.  Any dealer worth any respect will give a guarantee as with a second hand car.   This could be a case for 'Rogue Traders' or 'Rip off Britain'.
Perhaps we should all look in 'Classic Bike' for big adverts and draw our own conclusions as to which dealers they are.
Citizens Advice Bureau have a page about this sort of thing and I believe that it is covered by the Consumer Rights Act 2015

Dave.

[Cmcl.1959]

Hi Dave,

I really don't want to take this any further. I'm sure that the dealers involved have supplied many customers with decent bikes and I may have been unlucky, certainly with the BSA.
I agree that bikes, cars, anything really should be sold "fit for purpose", but there is usually a get out clause like " no warranty implied or given".
Speculating which dealers they are will only cause trouble, so please just let it lie.
The BSA was sold to me and it was running, I got a 7 second video on Whatsapp to see it starting. Once delivered, it did run, albeit not very well and the gearchange issues were annoying, but any other faults I've found have been because I've been looking to sort things out. It's been a disappointment but I'm going to move on and get over it.
I was just highlighting the pitfalls of buying a bike from distance ie on the internet or from a magazine. I live in the north of Scotland so the opportunities to go see a bike that is advertised even in the north of England means a lot of travelling and expense especially if you have to do it several times to find the right bike, hence why I've bought these bikes on the evidence of a picture and what I've been told on the phone.
Thanks for everyone's help so far, no doubt I'll be back on asking more questions.


Clarke