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Messages - Cmcl.1959

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1
Twins / Re: A65 Rocket gearbox revisited
« on: 12 May, 2022, 13:19:18 »
Here are the links to 3 videos my friend has posted on Youtube for me showing the gear selector issues I've been having.
They show me going up and down the gears.
The first one is the original quadrant, spring and stop and shows the problem coming down from 4th. Going into first and back to neutral seems fine. Going up through the gears is ok and the return spring gets the gear lever back into place after the change. Coming down the spring doesn't seem to do this and I have to move it back manually.
The second video is with a different spring and the result is pretty much the same.
The third video is with a replacement quadrant and spring and shows pretty much what I've been experiencing on the road when coming to a junction or lights and have to come down the box to neutral which it very rarely does and leads to stalling.
I've overhauled the clutch with new plates and there is no slip or drag when the bike is running.

https://youtu.be/xTX7VKIugcg
https://youtu.be/AGzPrstwkc0
https://youtu.be/yTXkbkdIM_4

Just highlight the link, right click and select Go to... to view. Please forgive the camera work.

Clarke




2
Twins / A65 Rocket gearbox revisited
« on: 10 May, 2022, 09:46:34 »
Hi to everyone,

Just a quick question.
Does anyone know if it's possible to upload video to the forum?
The reason being that when I was at the bike last weekend I decided to record what was happening with the gearbox when the gear change problem occurs that has been happening.
It would be much clearer than the written explanation that I've tried to give.
I did try to add it as an attachment, but it wouldn't do it, I think because it's maybe too big memory wise.

Clarke

3
Twins / Re: A65 Rocket timing marks
« on: 25 April, 2022, 18:38:07 »
Hi Spaceman,
I still have the older 2 pin plate. The flats Dave mentioned are still on the wrong sides ie not the landing side of the return spring mechanism, but they're in pretty tight and I don't want to risk breaking the aluminium. Could apply a bit of heat or file new flats.
Dave did give me a new stop and spring which I tried. The original gear lever/quadrant had pretty badly chewed splines so I did manage to get a replacement one from eBay which came with a totally knackered inner gearbox cover.
When the inner cover and the gear lever are fitted along with the stop and spring (over the bottom pin) and I move the back wheel, it feels as though the plungers don't engage properly or return to the mid point after a change.
I've tried putting the quadrant in various gears before refitting the inner gearbox cover, 1st or 4th to match the diagrams in the manual as there doesn't seem to be any way that I can get the plungers to sit in the neutral position as shown when re-fitting the cover as the quadrant always slips down into what is shown as 1st (although the rear wheel is free to turn as if in neutral). The quadrant has axial play ie it is able to be pulled through a bit (5mm or so) when the cover is re-fitted. If I push it back through when fitting the stop and spring, the stop can foul on the casing. There is a mark on the case from the key from some time ago which must have caused the gear change to jam at some point.
I had thought about putting a washer or spacer on the gear shaft before it comes through the case to stop this movement as I thought that the plungers may be right at the ends of the slots in the cam and maybe coming out when changing gear.
Once I've got the timing gears sorted I'll give it another go but it would be frustrating to get everything boxed up and the bike running only to be back at square one.
Thanks for all the help and suggestions, I'll let you know how I get on.

Regards
Clarke

4
Twins / Re: A65 Rocket timing marks
« on: 25 April, 2022, 14:58:13 »
Thanks Dave.
Iíll give this a go.

Clarke

5
Twins / A65 Rocket timing marks
« on: 25 April, 2022, 10:36:01 »
Hi to all again,
As anyone who has seen my previous posts, I've been having a lot of trouble with gear selection.
In an effort to see if the gearbox was the issue, I removed the inner gearbox cover to give access to the cam plate.
Moving the back wheel, it's possible to select all the gears with the occasional false neutral between second and third.
I fitted the gear selector quadrant in the hole and operated it with the gear change lever and the plungers would work ok.
To do a dry run I re-fitted the gearbox cover and fitted the return spring mechanism and gear change lever, but it's back to missing gears and it feels like the plungers sometimes go more than one gear.
Anyway on taking the gear cover back off, the idler timing gear came off with it and in a moment of stupidity I tuned the engine over with it off to align the timing mark with that on the crankshaft gear and as a result the timing marks on the idler and camshaft no longer line up.
Can anyone advise on the best way to re-align the marks on all three. Can i for example leave the idler off and rotate the crank and camshaft gears separately to the correct positions and re-fit the idler? or is there a better way?
Any help gratefully received.
It's getting to the stage that I'll be happy if I can get the engine boxed up and running and leave the gear change issue to someone better qualified than me to sort it out.

Regards
Clarke

6
Twins / Re: A65 Rocket gearbox
« on: 02 March, 2022, 19:58:55 »
Ok. Iíll give it a try at the weekend as thatís my next day off.

Thanks again.
Clarke

7
Twins / Re: A65 Rocket gearbox
« on: 02 March, 2022, 19:16:00 »
Hi spaceman, Iíve had the bike for about 9 months now. Initially the bike wouldnít start or run very well an would usually stall when selecting first gear. Once running, it would go up through the gears reasonably well but slowing down coming to junctions, lights etc, getting into second from third was a hit or miss affair. Finding neutral very difficult a very often it wouldnít go back into first. It felt at first like the clutch wasnít disengaging.
Usually this meant stalling at the lights and rocking the bike back and forth while getting first using my hand.
This happened every run and became really frustrating. Since about September the bike has been in my parents garage while Iíve gone about fitting a new monobloc carb, electronic ignition, changing a damaged alternator, going to 12volts and stripping and rebuilding the clutch as I want this to be an everyday bike in the Summer.
Iíve been reluctant to delve into the gearbox and I know that it could be selector forks, gear damage or a number of other issues, but the feeling I was getting through my right foot was the the lever wasnít travelling sufficiently to engage the selector in the camplate.
Someone posted the service sheet that listed the pins and mentioned grinding a bit off the stop plate for more travel so thatís what Iíve been concentrating on.


Clarke

8
Twins / Re: A65 Rocket gearbox
« on: 02 March, 2022, 17:36:29 »
Thanks Dave.
Much appreciated.

Clarke

9
Twins / Re: A65 Rocket gearbox
« on: 02 March, 2022, 15:53:39 »
Thanks again.
So if anyone out there has a stop plate that Spaceman was talking about (part 68-3083) and the spring (68-3084), please get in touch and I'll gladly buy them. Anything to try and sort the poor shifting I've been experiencing.


Thanks and Regards
Clarke

10
Twins / Re: A65 Rocket gearbox
« on: 02 March, 2022, 11:31:15 »
Thanks for the info Spaceman.
The stop plate I have in place is the later one which must have been fitted as the originals are no longer available.
It begs the question, would removing the top pin and making it like the later set up help the gear changing?

Clarke

11
Twins / A65 Rocket gearbox
« on: 01 March, 2022, 14:04:38 »
Hi to all again.
A while back I tried to describe the pins in the timing side that limit the travel of the gear change return mechanism and it seemed to cause a bit of confusion.
I ended up copying the text from a service bulletin for the American market that highlighted the flats on these pins that dictate how far the return mechanism moves and how they should be sitting.
Most people that replied could not picture these pins as they were obviously not in their particular model of A65.
I was on Ebay today and found these pictures of the two different timing side cases.
Hope this shows what I was meaning. Both show the apertures for the kick start lever and also for the gear change lever. I'd imagine the one with just the one pin (where the return spring sits) is of a later design.


Regards
Clarke

12
Twins / Re: A65 Rocket gearbox
« on: 22 December, 2021, 18:12:48 »
Hi to all,
I seem to have caused a bit of confusion regarding these pegs or plugs as listed in the Service Bulletin no.164 (the sheet refers to BSA incorporated New Jersey) but refers to A50s and A65s and is dated 2nd June 1964.
I've tried umpteen times today to attach it to this reply without any joy so I'll just write here what the bulletin says.

Subject: Gear change mechanism on all A50-A65 models
"When difficulty is experienced in changing up and down the range it may be due to incomplete travel of the cam plate.
The movement of the gear change return lever is limited by two plugs (part no. 68-3058) in the inner case which control the travel of the cam plate.
The return lever (part no. 68-3083) stops against flats ground on the two plugs. When these plugs are assembled in the case, the flats must be located so that the top and bottom sides on the return lever strike against the stops squarely to get the maximum travel to complete the ratchet movement which is required to slide the gears from one speed to another.
When this movement is 0.20" or 0.30" lesstthan what is called for shifting difficulties will be experienced.
When difficulty is experienced in shifting down the range, grind 0.20" to 0.30" off the lower flat on the return lever. When difficulty is experienced in shifting up the range, grind 0.20" to 0.30" off the upper flat on the return lever"
It then goes onto possibly changing the return spring for one from the Super Rocket.
The return lever can be seen on the end of the cam quadrant in Bess's photos.
My Rocket is an early one (1963) so later ones may be different.
Just thought I'd post this to try and clarify what I was doing.

The plan is still to go back into the timing side and rotate these plugs so that the flats are in the correct place to see if this makes a difference. I'll see if I can take a couple of photos to show them.

Thanks to everyone who responded and hope you all have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Clarke



13
Twins / Re: A65 Rocket gearbox
« on: 16 December, 2021, 12:50:03 »
Hi again,

I'm referring to advice given in Service Bulletin no. 164 and part number 68-3058 (in my 1963-65 parts list), two pegs that limit the travel of the gearshift return lever, not the shifting quadrant plungers that engage in the cam plate.
The quadrant shaft comes through the inner gearbox casing and eventually out the timing side cover where the gear change lever is attached. The return lever 68-3083 and associated spring are mounted on the shaft and the amount the quadrant plunger can move up or down when using the gear shift lever is limited by these pegs.
The advice on the service bulletin is that the flats face the return lever (in my case they don't) and if more travel is required, grind a small amount off the side of the lever (up or down) that has insufficient travel. Not enough travel and the plungers may not go into the cam plate slot for the selected gear.
I'll try turning them as Dave suggests (thanks Dave) and see if that makes a difference.

Thanks again to all that replied

Clarke

14
Twins / Re: A65 Rocket gearbox
« on: 15 December, 2021, 18:56:49 »
Hi Dave,

This has been a problem since I bought the bike in May. Iíve been discovering things (see previous posts) ever since. Changing the spring is just the latest attempt to solve this problem.
Iíve already described various issues Iíve found with the bike as Iíve gone along. I was at the point of going into the gearbox but thought Iíd overhaul the clutch first to see if that would make a difference. Obviously Iíd have to undo a lot of the work Iíve done  to go into the box do that but I thought Iíd see if anyone knew about the stop pins first.
The flats being on the wrong side would limit the movement of the return lever but I didnít want to force them round and possibly crack the casing.

Clarke

15
Twins / A65 Rocket gearbox
« on: 15 December, 2021, 14:42:16 »
Hi to all again.
I'm still trying to resolve the gearchange issues I have coming down the box.
The gearbox will go from 3rd to 2nd, but will rarely go into neutral and most of the time won't go into 1st before coming to a standstill.
I've read the service bulletins and before I go to the extent of delving into the gearbox, one mentions the two stop "plugs" for the return lever. When I was fitting a new return spring I noticed that the flats on these are facing in the wrong direction i.e. away from the return lever.
Does anyone know if these are shrunk, glued or screwed in their holes so that I can try turning them. If they are shrunk in then to avoid damage, I'll either file new flats or as the service bulletin says grind a bit of the return lever arm. I'm not sure if it's possible to grind too much off.
In the meantime I've rebuilt the clutch with new friction plates. I ended up using the old plain plates as the ones I got from Draganfly didn't fit (they were the correct part no.). Also the new springs were also the correct number but were much longer than those fitted.
Any advice gratefully received.

Thanks
Clarke.

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