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Messages - Cmcl.1959

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Twins / Re: A65 Rocket gearbox
« on: 22 December, 2021, 18:12:48 »
Hi to all,
I seem to have caused a bit of confusion regarding these pegs or plugs as listed in the Service Bulletin no.164 (the sheet refers to BSA incorporated New Jersey) but refers to A50s and A65s and is dated 2nd June 1964.
I've tried umpteen times today to attach it to this reply without any joy so I'll just write here what the bulletin says.

Subject: Gear change mechanism on all A50-A65 models
"When difficulty is experienced in changing up and down the range it may be due to incomplete travel of the cam plate.
The movement of the gear change return lever is limited by two plugs (part no. 68-3058) in the inner case which control the travel of the cam plate.
The return lever (part no. 68-3083) stops against flats ground on the two plugs. When these plugs are assembled in the case, the flats must be located so that the top and bottom sides on the return lever strike against the stops squarely to get the maximum travel to complete the ratchet movement which is required to slide the gears from one speed to another.
When this movement is 0.20" or 0.30" lesstthan what is called for shifting difficulties will be experienced.
When difficulty is experienced in shifting down the range, grind 0.20" to 0.30" off the lower flat on the return lever. When difficulty is experienced in shifting up the range, grind 0.20" to 0.30" off the upper flat on the return lever"
It then goes onto possibly changing the return spring for one from the Super Rocket.
The return lever can be seen on the end of the cam quadrant in Bess's photos.
My Rocket is an early one (1963) so later ones may be different.
Just thought I'd post this to try and clarify what I was doing.

The plan is still to go back into the timing side and rotate these plugs so that the flats are in the correct place to see if this makes a difference. I'll see if I can take a couple of photos to show them.

Thanks to everyone who responded and hope you all have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.


Twins / Re: A65 Rocket gearbox
« on: 16 December, 2021, 12:50:03 »
Hi again,

I'm referring to advice given in Service Bulletin no. 164 and part number 68-3058 (in my 1963-65 parts list), two pegs that limit the travel of the gearshift return lever, not the shifting quadrant plungers that engage in the cam plate.
The quadrant shaft comes through the inner gearbox casing and eventually out the timing side cover where the gear change lever is attached. The return lever 68-3083 and associated spring are mounted on the shaft and the amount the quadrant plunger can move up or down when using the gear shift lever is limited by these pegs.
The advice on the service bulletin is that the flats face the return lever (in my case they don't) and if more travel is required, grind a small amount off the side of the lever (up or down) that has insufficient travel. Not enough travel and the plungers may not go into the cam plate slot for the selected gear.
I'll try turning them as Dave suggests (thanks Dave) and see if that makes a difference.

Thanks again to all that replied


Twins / Re: A65 Rocket gearbox
« on: 15 December, 2021, 18:56:49 »
Hi Dave,

This has been a problem since I bought the bike in May. Iíve been discovering things (see previous posts) ever since. Changing the spring is just the latest attempt to solve this problem.
Iíve already described various issues Iíve found with the bike as Iíve gone along. I was at the point of going into the gearbox but thought Iíd overhaul the clutch first to see if that would make a difference. Obviously Iíd have to undo a lot of the work Iíve done  to go into the box do that but I thought Iíd see if anyone knew about the stop pins first.
The flats being on the wrong side would limit the movement of the return lever but I didnít want to force them round and possibly crack the casing.


Twins / A65 Rocket gearbox
« on: 15 December, 2021, 14:42:16 »
Hi to all again.
I'm still trying to resolve the gearchange issues I have coming down the box.
The gearbox will go from 3rd to 2nd, but will rarely go into neutral and most of the time won't go into 1st before coming to a standstill.
I've read the service bulletins and before I go to the extent of delving into the gearbox, one mentions the two stop "plugs" for the return lever. When I was fitting a new return spring I noticed that the flats on these are facing in the wrong direction i.e. away from the return lever.
Does anyone know if these are shrunk, glued or screwed in their holes so that I can try turning them. If they are shrunk in then to avoid damage, I'll either file new flats or as the service bulletin says grind a bit of the return lever arm. I'm not sure if it's possible to grind too much off.
In the meantime I've rebuilt the clutch with new friction plates. I ended up using the old plain plates as the ones I got from Draganfly didn't fit (they were the correct part no.). Also the new springs were also the correct number but were much longer than those fitted.
Any advice gratefully received.


Twins / Re: A65 Rocket gearbox
« on: 28 October, 2021, 07:52:05 »
Hi Dave,

I really don't want to take this any further. I'm sure that the dealers involved have supplied many customers with decent bikes and I may have been unlucky, certainly with the BSA.
I agree that bikes, cars, anything really should be sold "fit for purpose", but there is usually a get out clause like " no warranty implied or given".
Speculating which dealers they are will only cause trouble, so please just let it lie.
The BSA was sold to me and it was running, I got a 7 second video on Whatsapp to see it starting. Once delivered, it did run, albeit not very well and the gearchange issues were annoying, but any other faults I've found have been because I've been looking to sort things out. It's been a disappointment but I'm going to move on and get over it.
I was just highlighting the pitfalls of buying a bike from distance ie on the internet or from a magazine. I live in the north of Scotland so the opportunities to go see a bike that is advertised even in the north of England means a lot of travelling and expense especially if you have to do it several times to find the right bike, hence why I've bought these bikes on the evidence of a picture and what I've been told on the phone.
Thanks for everyone's help so far, no doubt I'll be back on asking more questions.


Twins / Re: A65 Rocket gearbox
« on: 27 October, 2021, 21:13:34 »
Hi Dave,

Iím not going to name the dealers, the one I bought the Triumph TR6P from is no longer trading under the name I bought it from but Iím pretty sure that they, along with the one I bought the BSA from still have big adverts in Classic Bike magazine. The reason? Theyíll just claim ďbuyer bewareĒ and more than likely get their lawyers onto me.
The Triumph was bought on the promise it was ready to go and would have an mot. The guy delivered it at 10 oí clock in the dark, claiming they didnít have time for the mot but give him a ring afterwards and heíll send me the £15.
In the light of day next morning, I found that there was damage to both exhausts, the front mudguard and the tank was scratched. In other words nothing like the photos.
It took me three months to get the bike going after changing the battery, clutch (complete), the alternator, etc, etc. So many bodges.
The dealer from day one refused to answer my calls, or emails. In the end I gave up trying and ended up spending a lot of time and money, but did end up with a good runner.
The BSA arrived looking lovely and give the previous owner his due money obviously had been spent, but the battery was discharged fully and I needed a replacement just to get it running.
First ride out, continuous stalling, poor brakes and really bad gear changes. A home made key for the ignition. Since then itís been finding one thing after another.
So far itís been a nightmare, but I will make it a good bike.


Twins / Re: A65 Rocket gearbox
« on: 27 October, 2021, 13:12:28 »
Thanks to everyone for the info. I'll certainly take everything on board.
My gripe the other day came after stripping out the clutch and finding what looks like three different types (or three of the same but in different states of wear) of friction plates. The friction material segments on one were cracked, the others black and badly worn. The plain plates all had signs of rubbing/scoring as though they had not been releasing. The springs are a different length to those in the manual.
So those are more parts I've had to order and replace.
This is the second bike as I've said that I've bought from a dealer, paying top money, thinking I was getting a bike I could get on and ride. Both times I've had to replace so much stuff.
I don't mind getting the tools out, not in the slightest, but it's not what I thought I was buying.
Anyway, thanks again.


Twins / Re: A65 Rocket gearbox
« on: 23 October, 2021, 22:39:33 »
Hi Dave,
On later drawings I've seen that the return mechanism is located by a grub screw. Mine moves free on the key so right or wrong I'm going to drill and tap for a small grub screw.
To be honest this is the second bike I've bought from a dealer that has been "restored".  Restored my arse.  I swore after the last bike I wouldn't buy from a dealer again, but I read an article in Classic Bike magazine from a well known dealer extolling the benefits of buying from a them and got sucked in. In future should I buy an old bike then it'll be through someone I know and I'd everyone to do the same.
As a result I've spent hundreds so far fixing problems just to get it running. And it's going to cost a lot more yet.
That's not to say I don't enjoy the maintenance side of owning an old bike, it's just the fact that you're expecting to get a bike that runs right from the day you part with your ( not insubstantial ) cash but end up with a "project".
I'm lucky that I'm an engineer by trade, but  others are not so lucky and end up going to an expensive 3rd party to get their pride and joy sorted.
Anyway, onwards and upwards.



Twins / Re: A65 Rocket gearbox
« on: 22 October, 2021, 09:34:43 »
Hi Adrian,

Thanks. It's just frustrating when you're coming to a junction or traffic lights and you have to keep the clutch in or it'll stall, then you have to try to find neutral.
I did see a video on Youtube of a similar issue and they had the timing side cover and inner gearbox covers off and the gears changed ok by hand but the owner still had the problem once it was put back together.
It's a shame because it spoils a good ride out.
I'll still see if I can adjust the clutch etc.
Thanks again.


Twins / A65 Rocket gearbox
« on: 21 October, 2021, 18:42:04 »
Hi to all again,
I'm still in the process of updating my 1963/64 Rocket and so far have completed the change to 12V electrics, fitted a regulator/rectifier, changed the (damaged) alternator, fitted and set the Pazon electronic ignition and also fitted led bulbs.
I've also fitted a new Monobloc carb as the original had seen better days.
I'm still having gear change issues when running, namely the 4 speed box will change up pretty easily, but coming down it struggles to go from 3rd to 2nd and neutral is very difficult to find. When cold at stand still, shifting is better if I use my hand to operate the gear lever.
I've yet to strip down the clutch to see if that's where the gremlins are and there are signs that it is dragging, but if it is a gearbox issue, can anyone please advise me if any other models gearboxes will fit. I've seen a Thunderbolt one online in good condition, but I don't want to go spending cash on something that won't fit.
Any info gratefully received.


Twins / Re: Amal Monobloc replacement
« on: 18 September, 2021, 09:54:20 »
I've sent an email to Surrey cycles, I did try Cheshire classic bikes but he said minimum 6 week wait.
I've also emailed Amal for advice. I think it's because I was used to the concentric that I prefer it.
I'll see what Amal says and if I can't get a monobloc I'll try Dave's advice.

Thanks again both.


Twins / Amal Monobloc replacement
« on: 17 September, 2021, 18:25:16 »
Hello to all again,
I'm well into my plan to update my 1964 BSA A65 Rocket and so far I've fitted a new 12V alternator, regulator rectifier and electronic ignition.
I've turned my attention to the monobloc carb and on stripping it down, found it was black inside, wear on the slide and choke and despite being in the ultrasonic cleaner and changing all the jets etc I've come to the conclusion it's had its day.
I'm thinking of changing it to a concentric as it looks like there is a long waiting list at Amal.
I have a concentric from my Triumph days but I'm not sure what size would be compatible.
Any advice from anyone who has an A65 on a single concentric would be gratefully received. The monobloc is a 389/201.


Twins / Re: A65 Rocket alternator change
« on: 26 August, 2021, 17:12:06 »
Hi and thanks for the replies.
I did manage to thread a single wire through and if I'm right it comes out under the engine/gearbox and up just outside where the drive chain exits the primary side.
Still no hope of getting the wires from the stator through so I'm going to cut them and solder new wriest them once I've got the wires where I want them.
Did this earlier today but I only had 1mm square wire or thicker ones from a solar powered battery charger which also proved too thick.
I'll order some 2mm square wire and give it another go. I'll use shrink fit sheathing over the joins.
I thought from past experience with my Triumph which had a similar problem that getting the air gap at the stator/rotor was going to be the problem but this has been a nightmare.

Thanks again.

Twins / A65 Rocket alternator change
« on: 26 August, 2021, 13:35:18 »
Hi to all again.
Continuing to upgrade my Rocket to 12v and electronic ignition.
Have found several issues on the way from previous work done on the bike, but biggest I think was that the alternator rotor had been rubbing on the stator for a long time and had damaged the stator.
Got the replacement today from Paul Goff (good service by the way) and went to fit it. Got my 8 thou all round, tied a piece of string to the old wires and pulled them through, tied on the new wires and found that the new sheathing is bigger and got stuck as i pulled it through and lo and behold the string came away.
I've tried pushing various things into the hole but cannot get anything to come through.
Can anyone advise me as to how to get the new wires through and where they exit near the left hand coil. Can it be seen with the chain guard off or am I in for a big job? Think I'll have to at least cut back the sheathing and fit smaller heat shrink tubing once I know how to get it through.


Twins / Re: 1963 Rocket. Setting timing with Pazon
« on: 15 August, 2021, 18:50:15 »
Hi Dave,
Yes I have the degree wheel on the end of the crank where the rotor sits.
I tried both methods. Using the stick on the right hand cylinder once I had TDC marking the stick, adding a second mark at 0.357Ē then rotating the back wheel backwards a couple of inches, then coming back to the higher mark.
If I used the degree wheel from TDC and rotated the back wheel to 37 degrees it was miles different, the stick went much further into the bore.
Iíll try what you suggest and see where I end up.

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