BSA Owners' Club Forum

General => The Star and Garter => Topic started by: EDDIE SIMPSON on 22 December, 2017, 17:57:30

Title: dvla new commitie
Post by: EDDIE SIMPSON on 22 December, 2017, 17:57:30
i ve had my bsa plunger application rejected  for two new reasons from the dvla input services group.
1. dating certificate over a year old. [ by a few days ]
2. date of despatch is no longer valid. it must be date of manufacture.
merry christmas from the input services group.
Title: Re: dvla new commitie
Post by: AWJDThumper on 22 December, 2017, 18:07:09
I don't like the sound of the last point, especially as the 2 x dating certificates and 2 x vehicle reports I got today from the BSAOC only give the despatch dates!! I think the BSAOC may only have 'Despatch Books'??
Title: Re: dvla new commitie
Post by: A10 JWO on 23 December, 2017, 17:13:40
Worrying  :o
Title: Re: dvla new commitie
Post by: MALCOLM.JOHNSON on 24 December, 2017, 21:22:59
Date of manufacture? very worrying, as I type, I have an age related application with the DVLA. The frame has a despatch date of 3rd July 1952 and since the engine is the original engine, must obviously also been despatched on the same day too. Crank cases are matched, but stamped on the drive side case is the date 6-3-52 and on the timing side case is 8-2-52. Whether this indicates casting or machining dates I do not know, but how can an accurate date of manufacture be ascertained. Clearly mine took several months to come together!
Title: Re: dvla new commitie
Post by: AWJDThumper on 24 December, 2017, 22:57:18
The VMCC now holds the BSA Factory Records donated to them by the Science Museum which I believe contain both the dates of manufacture and the dates of despatch. I'm not sure whether the BSAOC has access to the Factory Records for BSA or just has the despatch information. If DVLA needs the dates of manufacture, does this mean we would have to get them from the VMCC?
Title: Re: dvla new commitie
Post by: DEAN SOUTHALL on 26 December, 2017, 08:50:51
Presuming that this does reflect a change in DVLA requirements, and not just an 'admin error' it could should be addressed by the BSAOC asap and hopefully we will soon have a comment by the Club on here.
In the meantime I may need to put on hold my current restoration, despite the huge amounts of time and money I have  already spent on it. In the next couple of weeks I need to decide whether to bother applying for registration so I can enjoy the long awaited use of the the bike or whether I should start stripping it ready for ebay >:(  :'(
Title: Re: dvla new commitie
Post by: AWJDThumper on 26 December, 2017, 09:06:49
Logically, I can't see why DVLA would want manufacture dates rather than despatch dates - the latter is when they actually left the factory. Worst case, the manufacture dates would need to be extracted from the original factory records - if BSAOC do not have a copy then they can be obtained from the VMCC. Hopefully, Steve Foden, the BSAOC Librarian, will be able to clarify the situation. In the meantime, I will be sending off my current Dating Certificate with despatch date to the DVLA :)
Title: Re: dvla new commitie
Post by: DEAN SOUTHALL on 26 December, 2017, 14:08:32
Having had another cup of coffe and time to ponder I am less concerned until I heard confirmatory news. I suspect DVLA have  accepted  Despatch date as effective manufacture date but perhaps someone in the DVLA was not aware of this.
Title: Re: dvla new commitie
Post by: Admin on 26 December, 2017, 20:26:03
A correction needs to be made about the BSA factory records. It was actually a joint venture between the BSAOC and VMCC to acquire the BSA factory despatch records from the Science Museum. The VMCC are mearly the custodians of the original books (they DO NOT own them) and the BSAOC has a complete copy of the books which it uses for Dating Certificates.

Rob Jones
Title: Re: dvla new commitie
Post by: DEAN SOUTHALL on 26 December, 2017, 21:26:35
Rob, thnaks for the clarification on the ownership issue.
Are you able to shed any light on the despatch/manufacture date issue?
Title: Re: dvla new commitie
Post by: EDDIE SIMPSON on 26 December, 2017, 22:07:13
hi all, i m about to send back my application to the dvla as i cant understand why a date of despatch to the dealer network from the factory gate is not the final date of manufacture. will keep you posted.
Title: Re: dvla new commitie
Post by: JulianS on 27 December, 2017, 12:16:15
Before being held by the Science Museum the Despatch books (over 400 of them) were held by the Metropolitan Police stolen vehicle investigation branch.

Back in  the 1970s there was a note in "The Star" advising members that they could write to the Metroploitan Police for an extract of details held on their bike. Photo below shows what you got back.

By the early 1990s the books had reached the Science Museum.

I dont think anyone has a date of build book, or  build cards for BSA motorcycles.

Title: Re: dvla new commitie
Post by: DEAN SOUTHALL on 27 December, 2017, 14:31:19
Before being held by the Science Museum the Despatch books (over 400 of them) were held by the Metropolitan Police stolen vehicle investigation branch.

I had a tour of their stolen/dodgy car garage....some very interesting and pretty tasty cars in there!
Title: Re: dvla new commitie
Post by: Admin on 27 December, 2017, 18:31:59
Date of Manufacture

It is stated on the Dating Certificate issued by the BSAOC, the date of manufacture is the same as the date of despatch.
The DVLA have accepted this since 1992.

Rob Jones



Title: Re: dvla new commitie
Post by: AWJDThumper on 28 December, 2017, 07:09:09
This thread was started by Eddie Simpson who said that one of the reasons his application was rejected was that the DVLA said that the date of despatch was longer valid and they wanted the date of manufacture.

As I now understand it, the factory records held by the BSAOC do not contain the date of manufacture, only the date of despatch. The Dating Certificates produced by the BSAOC have a statement in them: "Dates quoted therefore can be taken as the date of manufacture". However, it is not entirely clear what the justification of the word "therefore" is in this statement?

I know my last Dating Certificate (18 months ago) was accepted by the DVLA. I posted off my B40WD Dating Certificate to the DVLA yesterday and, if the Royal Mail don't loose it this time, I'm hoping that the DVLA will accept it and do what I've requested. I'll let you know what happens.
Title: Re: dvla new commitie
Post by: Admin on 28 December, 2017, 09:58:14
The BSA Factory records held by the BSAOC and VMCC are IDENTICAL.

Having checked with the Clubs Dating Officer, it is likely that someone at the DVLA is being pernickety about the dates as this comes up every now and again.

I have contacted Eddie Simpson on how to progress his request.

Rob Jones
Title: Re: dvla new commitie
Post by: DEAN SOUTHALL on 28 December, 2017, 19:48:49
Rob, many thanks. Your prompt efforts are appreciated.
Title: Re: dvla new commitie
Post by: Mike Farmer on 29 December, 2017, 09:12:13
 :) :) :)
Ditto
Mike 8) 8)
Title: Re: dvla new commitie
Post by: MALCOLM.JOHNSON on 05 January, 2018, 20:51:31
Received notification today from the DVLA that they wish to inspect my machine, which is apparently done by "SGS", whoever they are. No mention of date of manufacture or details on the dating certificate, so I can only presume that part of it is ok? I have booked the inspection for next Tuesday. We will see what happens next?
Title: Re: dvla new commitie
Post by: MALCOLM.JOHNSON on 20 January, 2018, 21:42:21
Received my age related registration this morning. It took well over a month to complete and included a further inspection for the DVLA, by some contractor for the DVLA. This process is getting harder each and every time I undertake it. I think the next project had better come to me with documents!
Title: Re: dvla new commitie
Post by: Editor on 21 January, 2018, 13:50:52
I agree, so maybe when a bike is being sold without documents, the price paid should reflect this. Trouble is too many people get carried away and pay not far off what a running example with docs is worth. We all need to be sensible when putting a value on potential purchases and not go near or be very prepared to walk away if a realistic price cannot be agreed.
Chris
Title: Re: dvla new commitie
Post by: EDDIE SIMPSON on 22 January, 2018, 14:48:37
The process is in motion now and awaiting an Sgs inspection. It seems I made the mistake of sending the dating certificate and not the vehicle report which I had managed to mislay and forget about. It's lucky we have people like Julian to turn to.as dvla through me totally off course.
Title: Re: dvla new commitie
Post by: EDDIE SIMPSON on 27 February, 2018, 20:55:01
finally have a registration number and v5 from dvla. head out to the highway?
just in time for new mot regulations?
priced out of emission zones?
Title: Re: dvla new commitie
Post by: Editor on 01 March, 2018, 12:08:06
I believe the ULEZ charges don't apply to Historic vehicles.
Title: Re: dvla new commitie
Post by: BILL NELSON on 03 March, 2018, 14:08:51
I used to visit the factory early 1970s & believe/confirm that the despatch date was the manufacturing date as bikes were shipped to get payment asap, not held in stock. It was motor industry practice for stock to be held at dealers, not at the factory. The practice of filling acres of tarmac with unregistered cars until dealers call them off stock is fairly recent and certainly didn't happen with BSA and still doesn't happen with bikes.
What's more, there wasn't the computerised standardisation that there is now. If a customer wanted something different for their bike, the dealer could either swap bits before release, or order the bike with those bits from the factory.
The problem we have today is that most of the population, including some owners (not just DVLA) do not know how factories worked in those days.
Title: Re: dvla new commitie
Post by: Bess on 22 March, 2018, 15:07:06
Hi all,
         Here's a copy of my rejection received today:
Title: Re: dvla new commitie
Post by: DEREKANDERSON8 on 22 March, 2018, 17:16:43
Oh dear that's not good is it?  >:(

I am about to try and get an age related plate for my Tribsa wish me luck!

all the best

derek
Title: Re: dvla new commitie
Post by: ducati2242 on 22 March, 2018, 18:01:49
I had an SGS inspection yesterday , wednesday , he told me to expect my v5 in about 7 working days . I sent in all the information that was needed to the dvla including the dating certificate and all the photos but still got the sgs inspection which only took a week after receiving the dvla letter . This is the third bike I have done like this in the last 3 years but my first sgs inspection .
Title: Re: dvla new commitie
Post by: ducati2242 on 28 March, 2018, 15:31:33
I had an SGS inspection yesterday , wednesday , he told me to expect my v5 in about 7 working days . I sent in all the information that was needed to the dvla including the dating certificate and all the photos but still got the sgs inspection which only took a week after receiving the dvla letter . This is the third bike I have done like this in the last 3 years but my first sgs inspection .

been on the phone to the dvla and my v5 is in the post but just so i dont miss easter riding she gave me the reg number over the phone . plate is ordered so should be out for the weekend . The whole process only took about 3 weeks from sending in my v55/5 form so not to bad and proves if you do it right there's no problems .
Title: Re: dvla new commitie
Post by: Bess on 28 March, 2018, 15:55:02
I did it right, it was the others...