Author Topic: Kickstart cotter pin  (Read 723 times)

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JOHN KAY

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Re: Kickstart cotter pin
« Reply #15 on: 20 January, 2018, 16:20:23 »
HI PHIL

JUST AN IDEA NOT SAYING THIS WILL WORK BECAUSE THE PIN MAY BE TOO TIGHT BUT YOU COULD TRY
USING A G CLAMP AND SOME KIND OF NUT AS A SPACER AND SHORT BOLT AS A PUSHER AND PUSH IT OUT
BY SCREWING UP THE G CLAMP . THIS IS ALL IN THEORY OF COURSE AS THE G CLAMP MIGHT BREAK >
REGARDS JOHNBOY .

Phil C

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Re: Kickstart cotter pin
« Reply #16 on: 20 January, 2018, 18:11:18 »
I like the theory - thanks, Johnboy. I'll try that if the hammer doesn't work. Although I wonder whether, in practice, the uneven surfaces (of the broken pin and the contoured kickstart) might make it too wobbly to get enough pressure in the right direction. One way to find out.

Can anyone suggest why the it jammed absolutely solid when I was trying to kickstart the engine? Not just very stiff, it felt absolutely solid, which I guess is why the kickstart/cotter pin arrangement slipped. I pulled in the valve lifter lever, but that seemed to make no difference whatsoever.

Phil.

BEESY

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Re: Kickstart cotter pin
« Reply #17 on: 20 January, 2018, 18:56:10 »
I had a similar problem with a bantam. It turned out to be a bent return spring.

As the kick start lever went down the tension in the bent spring would push the quadrant out of alignment with the clutch basket. When the pressure taken off kuckstart lever and spring tried to unwind the teeth onquadrant and clutch jammed up.

Try putting bike in gear and gently rock it backwards to see if it frees it up.

AWJDThumper

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Re: Kickstart cotter pin
« Reply #18 on: 20 January, 2018, 19:51:05 »
Depending on which year your B40 is, there were two different types of kickstart mechanism used. The later ones used a quadrant and rachet pinion combination. With these types, it was not uncommon for the first teeth on the quadrant to engage the rachet pinion to get chewed up which could then stop the kickstart from rotating. The earlier B40's used a different mechanism and were less prone to jam. If your's is a later B40 and you have this jamming problem then it's likely you'll need to replace the quadrant which is what the kickstart is attached to via its shaft.

Phil C

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Re: Kickstart cotter pin
« Reply #19 on: 20 January, 2018, 20:46:48 »
Mine's 1965. Quadrant and ratchet?  If so, then I guess first take off the cover and have a look at the teeth, but if there's damage, as you suggest, then would it be a difficult job? Feasible for a novice, or not?

JulianS

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Re: Kickstart cotter pin
« Reply #20 on: 20 January, 2018, 21:03:28 »
If engine is B40F number then its a quadrant. Plain B40 then its ratchet.

Phil C

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Re: Kickstart cotter pin
« Reply #21 on: 20 January, 2018, 21:31:26 »
Yes, B40F - thanks. Anyway, first things first: the broken, jammed cotter pin.

Phil C

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Re: Kickstart cotter pin
« Reply #22 on: 20 January, 2018, 22:30:07 »
Oh yes, as I was saying, if I did need to replace the quadrant, is that feasible for a novice?   Phil.

AWJDThumper

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Re: Kickstart cotter pin
« Reply #23 on: 21 January, 2018, 09:09:30 »
Since you need to get at the quadrant, all you need to do after removing the gear change lever is to undo all the screws in the outer timing cover (RH cover) and pull it off. The quadrant will pull out with the cover and it will then be a lot easier to remove the cotter pin on the bench. It's very easy to put it all back again. You simply insert the replacement quadrant with spring into the side of the gearbox and then put the timing cover back on - a 30 minute job :)

AWJDThumper

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Re: Kickstart cotter pin
« Reply #24 on: 21 January, 2018, 09:32:37 »
Sorry - brain wasn't quite in gear and for some reason I was thinking distributor model. Unfortunately, you will probably need to remove the contact breaker points plate as well - I think the screw in posts that hold the plate in place screw into the inner timing cover and so have to be removed before the outer cover can be taken off. It's best to precisely mark the position of the plate relative to the outer cover so that you can put it back without having to check the ignition timing.

Phil C

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Re: Kickstart cotter pin
« Reply #25 on: 21 January, 2018, 10:32:34 »
Thanks very much for this. Of course I don't know yet whether the quadrant is damaged. If I can get the cotter pin out with the cover etc still on the bike, then I'll see if the kickstart lever jams again, and if it does then I'll take the cover off and have a look at the quadrant etc. But from what you say above, it appears that if I can't get the pin out with the cover still in place then I could take the cover off, complete with kickstart mechanism, and try to remove the pin on the bench. So the next thing to do now is still to try to hammer the pin out - I've ordered a set of parallel punches online and am waiting for them to arrive. Pathetic, isn't it, haven't even got any punches. I'm working in a very limited environment - small shed, bench and vice, that's about it. I must say I'm finding this forum very encouraging.

Phil C

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Re: Kickstart cotter pin
« Reply #26 on: 21 January, 2018, 10:38:15 »
By the way, Johnboy, I haven't forgotten your g-clamp idea!

AWJDThumper

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Re: Kickstart cotter pin
« Reply #27 on: 21 January, 2018, 10:42:51 »
If the jamming is due to a damaged quadrant, you should find that the kickstart lever will move freely the first few degrees before the teeth on the quadrant jam with those on the ratchet pinion - it will be like hitting an immovable object with the lever. I assume that all the gears normally engage properly and the engine turns over ok?

If you do need to take off the outer cover, I've just checked and the contact breaker plate should come away with the cover - there's no need to disturb the plate other than to disconnect the wire that goes to the points.

Mike Farmer

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Re: Kickstart cotter pin
« Reply #28 on: 21 January, 2018, 11:35:30 »
 :)
Do you have a bench??? If so load your bike with the wheels onto the edge of the bench with the offending kick start out to the side. Fix bike firmly in place.

This will give you all the space you need to enable you to get at it easily to drive out the pin.

If you get a similar problem in future, leave the nut on the pin and only undo it about 1/16th, and (once it moves undo it another 1/16th and repeat) this way you will have a much larger strike area when you hit it and you will be less likely to bend the threaded part. It will still probably kill the pin but that's no problem.

Mike 8) 8)

Phil C

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Re: Kickstart cotter pin
« Reply #29 on: 23 January, 2018, 16:36:03 »
Hello everyone, Some of you might remember this from a few days ago. Anyway, here's the latest. My punches arrived this morning, so off I went to my little shed to try to get the broken cotter pin out. I took the exhaust off, got my daughter to lean the bike over, and started tapping. It took a good few hits, but eventually, just as people on this forum said it would, it came out. I was interested to see the damage (see photos attached of old pin, new pin, and spindle.) This looks very much as described in Rupert Ration, p.107, and I wonder if the problem came about because of the pin coming loose over time. Anyway, I now have a choice: 1. I could refit the kickstart lever with the new pin, and see what happens, or 2. I could take the outer cover off and check the teeth on the quadrant. When the problem started, the kickstart lever seemed to hit solid resistance sometimes when I tried to kick the engine over, and some people advised that it could be due to damaged teeth. What do you think regarding these two options?