BSA Owners' Club Forum

The BSA Workshop => Twins => Topic started by: DEREKANDERSON8 on 19 December, 2017, 20:19:00

Title: Frame numbers?
Post by: DEREKANDERSON8 on 19 December, 2017, 20:19:00
Thoughts please, i should say i have bought the bike and the numbers match on log book, last owner had it for 22 years.

(https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wQ8DqdLn0bu7rOrJlybaNoh2eDfRXEVC/view?usp=sharing)
Title: Re: Frame numbers?
Post by: bikerbob on 20 December, 2017, 08:23:38
A bit more info would be helpful such as model and year, but that number does not look genuine from what little I can see it looks as though it is at least 1967 which means that after the A65 stamping it should have 2 letters denoting the model such as TA for a Thunderbolt LA for a Lightning etc. The letters changed in subsequent years but from 1967 the engine and frame numbers were the same and also that looks like a very long number considering that each year they began with 101 after the A65 and letters. Just noticed your earlier post is this the frame of your 1966 Thunderbolt if so then the frame number should begin A50C I was looking at the finned rocker cover which I believe came out in 1967 maybe wrong about that.
Title: Re: Frame numbers?
Post by: AWJDThumper on 20 December, 2017, 08:26:27
Also - does it have the same number stamped on the engine?
Title: Re: Frame numbers?
Post by: JulianS on 20 December, 2017, 08:57:00
A50C frame numbers only went to March 1966, then the prefix indicated the model ie A65L, A65T, A65S etc and frame and engine had same number.

That number has been stamped other than at the factory, it will not appear in the despatch books.
Title: Re: Frame numbers?
Post by: DEREKANDERSON8 on 20 December, 2017, 12:48:29
Engine number starts A65TA which suggests to me its 1967 Thunderbolt but its a 1966 D registration.



cheers

derek
Title: Re: Frame numbers?
Post by: DEREKANDERSON8 on 20 December, 2017, 12:52:17
 :)

Title: Re: Frame numbers?
Post by: AWJDThumper on 20 December, 2017, 14:29:16
Engine number starts A65TA which suggests to me its 1967 Thunderbolt but its a 1966 D registration.

If it was built and registered between Aug 1966 and Dec 1966, it would be a 1967 BSA model and D registration, so nothing wrong there! Engine number looks ok but frame number looks home made! For 1967, the engine and frame numbers should be the same so the question would be whether the bike started life with this engine (and frame) number or it a different bike? If the V5C matches the two numbers on the bike then, in this case, it might well be best to stick with this.
Title: Re: Frame numbers?
Post by: DEREKANDERSON8 on 20 December, 2017, 15:11:42
Engine number starts A65TA which suggests to me its 1967 Thunderbolt but its a 1966 D registration.

If it was built and registered between Aug 1966 and Dec 1966, it would be a 1967 BSA model and D registration, so nothing wrong there! Engine number looks ok but frame number looks home made! For 1967, the engine and frame numbers should be the same so the question would be whether the bike started life with this engine (and frame) number or it a different bike? If the V5C matches the two numbers on the bike then, in this case, it might well be best to stick with this.

i suppose its got a bit of history then, i will be keeping and using so wont be an issue when i come to sell it on if ever!

There cant be too many bikes over 50 years old that don't have stories to tell, apart from one owner or National Motorcycle Museum ones.

cheers

derek
Title: Re: Frame numbers?
Post by: Mike Farmer on 21 December, 2017, 10:01:45
Hi :)

Just been racking my brain cell and I would suggest that may be an MSVA No or a pre MSVA from when you could register a new frame by simply popping into your local county taxation office. Oh happy days.

Take care

Mike 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Frame numbers?
Post by: AWJDThumper on 21 December, 2017, 10:31:59
The V5C will say when the bike was first registered which should ideally correspond to 1966 from the D registration? At that first registration, it must have had the current frame number - that number defines the identity of the bike.  Logically, any changes that might have happened to the identity of the bike (eg change in frame number) must have occurred before this first registration. If first registration was, in fact, much later than 1966, it might suggest something funny has happened (MSVA route?).
Title: Re: Frame numbers?
Post by: JulianS on 21 December, 2017, 10:55:36
You could apply to DVLA, using their form V888, for information held on your vehicle. This could explain its history.


https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/v888-request-by-an-individual-for-information-about-a-vehicle
Title: Re: Frame numbers?
Post by: AWJDThumper on 21 December, 2017, 15:06:51
Unfortunately, they won't provide info on past owners under normal circumstances via the V888 - data protection and all that! What I did manage to get from them once via a V888 was the name of the first owner - however, I knew this would be an organisation rather than a private individual (turned out to be Leeds Parks Dept) and I argued that it was for particular historical purposes (general interest in knowing what civilian organisations bought this motorbike which was designed for the British Army).

In the case of this A65, it's hard to see what argument could be used to even request who the first owner was - if some skulduggery has taken place, the first owner is unlikely to appreciate his contact details being made known to the current owner!
Title: Re: Frame numbers?
Post by: JulianS on 21 December, 2017, 15:54:53
The point of the V888 enquiry would be to see what information DVLA holds about the time and circumstances of its registration, not to seek personal information.
Title: Re: Frame numbers?
Post by: Mike Farmer on 21 December, 2017, 16:58:58
Hi :)

I am about to use the V888 to try to find out if my barn find frame No is listed on the system. I know it was originally a South African Police bike and I want to try to establish whether its ever been officially imported and put into use. Because if its going to be a pain I'll go MSVA from square one.

I'll keep you in the picture>

Mike 8) 8)
Title: Re: Frame numbers?
Post by: AWJDThumper on 21 December, 2017, 17:14:50
The point of the V888 enquiry would be to see what information DVLA holds about the time and circumstances of its registration, not to seek personal information.
Normally that information should be on the V5C, especially under Sec. 3: Special Notes.
Title: Re: Frame numbers?
Post by: DEREKANDERSON8 on 21 December, 2017, 17:41:58
Hi :)

Just been racking my brain cell and I would suggest that may be an MSVA No or a pre MSVA from when you could register a new frame by simply popping into your local county taxation office. Oh happy days.

Take care

Mike 8) 8) 8)

sounds interesting mike!

The V5C will say when the bike was first registered which should ideally correspond to 1966 from the D registration? At that first registration, it must have had the current frame number - that number defines the identity of the bike.  Logically, any changes that might have happened to the identity of the bike (eg change in frame number) must have occurred before this first registration. If first registration was, in fact, much later than 1966, it might suggest something funny has happened (MSVA route?).

I have sent the V5 off to dvla for change of owner, it did however say 1966 was date/year of first registration then the usual 1986 date when it was put on the current dvla system.

thanks for all your input.

cheers

derek
Title: Re: Frame numbers?
Post by: Mike Farmer on 21 December, 2017, 19:16:45
 :)

Ah! If only.

I have a frame and some bits.(and some dust and cobwebs and what looks suspiciously like Cow muck---I mean barn find) No Reg No. No paper at all. Mr Foden has put the frame as SA Police.

Mike 8) 8)
Title: Re: Frame numbers?
Post by: DEREKANDERSON8 on 21 December, 2017, 20:17:54
:)

Ah! If only.

I have a frame and some bits.(and some dust and cobwebs and what looks suspiciously like Cow muck---I mean barn find) No Reg No. No paper at all. Mr Foden has put the frame as SA Police.

Mike 8) 8)

I honestly would think twice about buying a bike now with no documents, this A65 has matching (if possibly dubious!) complete documents.

I bought an A10 last year and finally got the V5 after a bit of a legal wrangle last month.

There are stories everywhere about problems with Dvla!

cheers

derek